Prom 62: Mahler - Symphony No. 6, BRSO, Rattle

[Barbirollians]

I am not sure the composer left the door open by his errata note and his own performances I think he closed it shut. If one prefers it Scherzo-Andante as Ratz did and it seems for a period Alma Mahler did then that’s fine recorded performances allow us to make our own decisions but it isn’t what Mahler wanted .

[Barbirollians]

Some brief reactions to listening to the radio transmission: the first movement, taken quite swiftly, had me thinking that compared to the LSO the Bavarians seemed to lack heft. The slow movement (irritatingly, to me, placed second) was beautifully played, with some exceptionally warm string playing. The Scherzo was appropriately vigorous and sardonic. But the Finale was what sealed the overall success of the performance: wild and ferocious where it needed to be, delving into turgid depths of despair or scaling delirious lyrical heights. I always wish for the nightmarish expressionistic insights of a Tennstedt or Bernstein in this movement, but Rattle and his orchestra certainly approached this level of intensity. In fact, I thought that they appeared to have saved themselves for this fiery, no-holds-barred conclusion. The brass were particularly brilliant.

I rather agree about the lack of heft in the first movement from the Bavarian RSO compared to LSO/Rattle Mahler performances. Then again having become acquainted with this symphony through Barbirolli's studio account most others lack heft !

I enjoyed it a great deal but it did not quite blow me away unlike his LSO Mahler 2 and 9 at the Proms . Lovely Andante. properly grim Scherzo and a very well paced account of the finale.

[oliver sudden]

I am not sure the composer left the door open by his errata note and his own performances I think he closed it shut. If one prefers it Scherzo-Andante as Ratz did and it seems for a period Alma Mahler did then that’s fine recorded performances allow us to make our own decisions but it isn’t what Mahler wanted .

The big problem for me isn't that Scherzo-Andante exists as an option. It's that thanks to Ratz's actions the composer's own ordering wasn't a realistic option for decades of performers (or listeners), including some of the most important Mahler conductors of all, precisely at the time when Mahler's music seriously came to prominence. He didn't just say: here is another performance possibility. He presented the order Mahler rejected (indeed never even performed) as the sole version of the Mahler-Gesellschaft, resting on a completely spurious story of Mahler changing his mind. This is an entirely different business from the Vaughan Williams London symphony, for example.

[richardfinegold]

The big problem for me isn't that Scherzo-Andante exists as an option. It's that thanks to Ratz's actions the composer's own ordering wasn't a realistic option for decades of performers (or listeners), including some of the most important Mahler conductors of all, precisely at the time when Mahler's music seriously came to prominence. He didn't just say: here is another performance possibility. He presented the order Mahler rejected (indeed never even performed) as the sole version of the Mahler-Gesellschaft, resting on a completely spurious story of Mahler changing his mind. This is an entirely different business from the Vaughan Williams London symphony, for example.

That is interesting but of little relevance currently. In October of 2024 we can refer to the inner movement ordering(s) as options, and not have to be concerned about what the tradition has been over the past century . I dislike repeating myself but that has become the case with the various Bruckner symphony editions and RVW London .
I think it’s a good thing. We all know that our music risks acquiring fossilized museum status. By dogmatically saying there is is only one way to do something it starts to resemble a butterfly festooned to an exhibit wall with a pin. I prefer scherzo andante, but after a few decades of taking for granted that there is no controversy here, I at least explored the alternative on recordings and in the hall. It makes me think and engage again with music that I had long since pigeonholed