Prom 61: Adès / Bruckner, BRSO, Rattle

[Prommer]

(Where there is Leif, there is Life - etc etc)

[duncan]

But that Segerstam Bruckner 8 was legendary!

Legendary? Notorious? Shall we settle on memorable?!

Re-reading the thread, I think it's fair to say his approach divided opinions.

[edashtav]

[...]

On the evidence of what we've heard in the past few days I'd say that Petrenko needs more experience conducting Bruckner, while Rattle is developing into a Bruckner conductor of the first rank.

I endorse your conclusions, Petrushka

[mathias broucek]

I endorse your conclusions, Petrushka

Yes, a really good summary. But Petrenko is a good musician. Comparing his Bruckner to mature Wand, Haitink (or Rattle) is not really fair!

[Prommer]

Mid career!

[Petrushka]

Yes, a really good summary. But Petrenko is a good musician. Comparing his Bruckner to mature Wand, Haitink (or Rattle) is not really fair!

It isn't fair really, I know, but KP decided to conduct his first Bruckner with the Berlin Philharmonic of all orchestras and in the full glare of the public eye.

SR's early essays in Bruckner were not wholly successful either but he has learnt well. Hopefully, KP will too.

I idly wonder if Rattle ever had Bruckner discussions with Bernard Haitink while the chance was there.

[edashtav]

Yes, a really good summary. But Petrenko is a good musician. Comparing his Bruckner to mature Wand, Haitink (or Rattle) is not really fair!

Ouch!

[alywin]

I was really shocked to find that - despite the overflowing waiting room at 10.30 that morning - this concert didn't sell out on Promming tickets, either downstairs or upstairs. A few more standees could have been fitted comfortably into the Arena, and the Gallery didn't seem particularly full at all. Wonder if people were put off by the prospect of the Ades ...

[Prommer]

I have just listened to Celibidache conducting this... wow. The coda! That's how to do it.

[Darkbloom]

It isn't fair really, I know, but KP decided to conduct his first Bruckner with the Berlin Philharmonic of all orchestras and in the full glare of the public eye.

SR's early essays in Bruckner were not wholly successful either but he has learnt well. Hopefully, KP will too.

I idly wonder if Rattle ever had Bruckner discussions with Bernard Haitink while the chance was there.

Of course there's the famous story of Rattle and Haitink hiding in a box at Covent Garden like two naughty schoolboys watching Carlos Kleiber rehearse Otello (or Elektra?). Rattle certainly didn't mind asking for advice from colleagues. I'd read that he picked the brains of Runnicles before embarking on the Ring. It's hard to know if Rattle would have learned much from Haitink in terms of advice, though, as he wasn't someone who said much in rehearsals and you probably learned more from just watching him conduct than from anything he might have told you.

[Darkbloom]

I have just listened to Celibidache conducting this... wow. The coda! That's how to do it.

It's amazing, isn't it? I think that's the sign of the great Bruckner conductors, that they manage to get under the skin of the music rather than just move it along. No matter how many times I hear that coda it always moves me.

[Maclintick]

Of course there's the famous story of Rattle and Haitink hiding in a box at Covent Garden like two naughty schoolboys watching Carlos Kleiber rehearse Otello (or Elektra?). Rattle certainly didn't mind asking for advice from colleagues. I'd read that he picked the brains of Runnicles before embarking on the Ring. It's hard to know if Rattle would have learned much from Haitink in terms of advice, though, as he wasn't someone who said much in rehearsals and you probably learned more from just watching him conduct than from anything he might have told you.

The whisper around this event at the time (Carlos Kleiber rehearsing Otello ROH 1980) is of Haitink turning to his companion, who may well have been SR for all I know, & saying "Now I'm beginning to understand what conducting opera is all about" Extraordinary but entirely characteristic humility on the part of BH when you realise he was over 50 at the time ( same age as CK), and had been in charge at Glyndebourne for over 2 years.

[Darkbloom]

The whisper around this event at the time (Carlos Kleiber rehearsing Otello ROH 1980) is of Haitink turning to his companion, who may well have been SR for all I know, & saying "Now I'm beginning to understand what conducting opera is all about" Extraordinary but entirely characteristic humility on the part of BH when you realise he was over 50 at the time, and had been in charge at Glyndebourne for over 2 years.

i'm sure there are different versions of it, but the one I heard is supposed to have come from Rattle himself and Haitink said something like: 'it seems like my studies in this art are only just beginning'. There seems to be a general consensus among conductors that Kleiber was just a conducting freak of nature and they didn't mind expressing frank admiration. Which is quite something when you consider the ego of the average conductor.

[LMcD]

I was really shocked to find that - despite the overflowing waiting room at 10.30 that morning - this concert didn't sell out on Promming tickets, either downstairs or upstairs. A few more standees could have been fitted comfortably into the Arena, and the Gallery didn't seem particularly full at all. Wonder if people were put off by the prospect of the Ades ...

Perhaps some people were forced, on the grounds of cost, to choose between Rattle's Bruckner and Rattle's Mahler.

[Prommer]

i'm sure there are different versions of it, but the one I heard is supposed to have come from Rattle himself and Haitink said something like: 'it seems like my studies in this art are only just beginning'. There seems to be a general consensus among conductors that Kleiber was just a conducting freak of nature and they didn't mind expressing frank admiration. Which is quite something when you consider the ego of the average conductor.

I think that's right... could this be due to his obvious talent mixed with the idea that the Kleibers somehow had it in the blood?