Prom 61: Adès / Bruckner, BRSO, Rattle

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Prommer
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 1258

    #61
    (Where there is Leif, there is Life - etc etc)

    Comment

    • duncan
      Full Member
      • Apr 2012
      • 246

      #62
      Originally posted by Prommer View Post

      But that Segerstam Bruckner 8 was legendary!
      Legendary? Notorious? Shall we settle on memorable?!

      Re-reading the thread, I think it's fair to say his approach divided opinions.

      Comment

      • edashtav
        Full Member
        • Jul 2012
        • 3667

        #63
        Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
        [...]

        On the evidence of what we've heard in the past few days I'd say that Petrenko needs more experience conducting Bruckner, while Rattle is developing into a Bruckner conductor of the first rank.
        I endorse your conclusions, Petrushka

        Comment

        • mathias broucek
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 1303

          #64
          Originally posted by edashtav View Post

          I endorse your conclusions, Petrushka
          Yes, a really good summary. But Petrenko is a good musician. Comparing his Bruckner to mature Wand, Haitink (or Rattle) is not really fair!

          Comment

          • Prommer
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 1258

            #65
            Mid career!

            Comment

            • Petrushka
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 12232

              #66
              Originally posted by mathias broucek View Post

              Yes, a really good summary. But Petrenko is a good musician. Comparing his Bruckner to mature Wand, Haitink (or Rattle) is not really fair!
              It isn't fair really, I know, but KP decided to conduct his first Bruckner with the Berlin Philharmonic of all orchestras and in the full glare of the public eye.

              SR's early essays in Bruckner were not wholly successful either but he has learnt well. Hopefully, KP will too.

              I idly wonder if Rattle ever had Bruckner discussions with Bernard Haitink while the chance was there.
              "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

              Comment

              • edashtav
                Full Member
                • Jul 2012
                • 3667

                #67
                Originally posted by mathias broucek View Post

                Yes, a really good summary. But Petrenko is a good musician. Comparing his Bruckner to mature Wand, Haitink (or Rattle) is not really fair!
                Ouch!

                Comment

                • alywin
                  Full Member
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 374

                  #68
                  I was really shocked to find that - despite the overflowing waiting room at 10.30 that morning - this concert didn't sell out on Promming tickets, either downstairs or upstairs. A few more standees could have been fitted comfortably into the Arena, and the Gallery didn't seem particularly full at all. Wonder if people were put off by the prospect of the Ades ...

                  Comment

                  • Prommer
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 1258

                    #69
                    I have just listened to Celibidache conducting this... wow. The coda! That's how to do it.

                    Comment

                    • Darkbloom
                      Full Member
                      • Feb 2015
                      • 706

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

                      It isn't fair really, I know, but KP decided to conduct his first Bruckner with the Berlin Philharmonic of all orchestras and in the full glare of the public eye.

                      SR's early essays in Bruckner were not wholly successful either but he has learnt well. Hopefully, KP will too.

                      I idly wonder if Rattle ever had Bruckner discussions with Bernard Haitink while the chance was there.
                      Of course there's the famous story of Rattle and Haitink hiding in a box at Covent Garden like two naughty schoolboys watching Carlos Kleiber rehearse Otello (or Elektra?). Rattle certainly didn't mind asking for advice from colleagues. I'd read that he picked the brains of Runnicles before embarking on the Ring. It's hard to know if Rattle would have learned much from Haitink in terms of advice, though, as he wasn't someone who said much in rehearsals and you probably learned more from just watching him conduct than from anything he might have told you.

                      Comment

                      • Darkbloom
                        Full Member
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 706

                        #71
                        Originally posted by Prommer View Post
                        I have just listened to Celibidache conducting this... wow. The coda! That's how to do it.
                        It's amazing, isn't it? I think that's the sign of the great Bruckner conductors, that they manage to get under the skin of the music rather than just move it along. No matter how many times I hear that coda it always moves me.

                        Comment

                        • Maclintick
                          Full Member
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 1065

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Darkbloom View Post

                          Of course there's the famous story of Rattle and Haitink hiding in a box at Covent Garden like two naughty schoolboys watching Carlos Kleiber rehearse Otello (or Elektra?). Rattle certainly didn't mind asking for advice from colleagues. I'd read that he picked the brains of Runnicles before embarking on the Ring. It's hard to know if Rattle would have learned much from Haitink in terms of advice, though, as he wasn't someone who said much in rehearsals and you probably learned more from just watching him conduct than from anything he might have told you.
                          The whisper around this event at the time (Carlos Kleiber rehearsing Otello ROH 1980) is of Haitink turning to his companion, who may well have been SR for all I know, & saying "Now I'm beginning to understand what conducting opera is all about" Extraordinary but entirely characteristic humility on the part of BH when you realise he was over 50 at the time ( same age as CK), and had been in charge at Glyndebourne for over 2 years.
                          Last edited by Maclintick; 11-09-24, 22:07.

                          Comment

                          • Darkbloom
                            Full Member
                            • Feb 2015
                            • 706

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Maclintick View Post
                            The whisper around this event at the time (Carlos Kleiber rehearsing Otello ROH 1980) is of Haitink turning to his companion, who may well have been SR for all I know, & saying "Now I'm beginning to understand what conducting opera is all about" Extraordinary but entirely characteristic humility on the part of BH when you realise he was over 50 at the time, and had been in charge at Glyndebourne for over 2 years.
                            i'm sure there are different versions of it, but the one I heard is supposed to have come from Rattle himself and Haitink said something like: 'it seems like my studies in this art are only just beginning'. There seems to be a general consensus among conductors that Kleiber was just a conducting freak of nature and they didn't mind expressing frank admiration. Which is quite something when you consider the ego of the average conductor.

                            Comment

                            • LMcD
                              Full Member
                              • Sep 2017
                              • 8396

                              #74
                              Originally posted by alywin View Post
                              I was really shocked to find that - despite the overflowing waiting room at 10.30 that morning - this concert didn't sell out on Promming tickets, either downstairs or upstairs. A few more standees could have been fitted comfortably into the Arena, and the Gallery didn't seem particularly full at all. Wonder if people were put off by the prospect of the Ades ...
                              Perhaps some people were forced, on the grounds of cost, to choose between Rattle's Bruckner and Rattle's Mahler.

                              Comment

                              • Prommer
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 1258

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Darkbloom View Post

                                i'm sure there are different versions of it, but the one I heard is supposed to have come from Rattle himself and Haitink said something like: 'it seems like my studies in this art are only just beginning'. There seems to be a general consensus among conductors that Kleiber was just a conducting freak of nature and they didn't mind expressing frank admiration. Which is quite something when you consider the ego of the average conductor.
                                I think that's right... could this be due to his obvious talent mixed with the idea that the Kleibers somehow had it in the blood?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X