Prom 61: Adès / Bruckner, BRSO, Rattle

[bluestateprommer]

Thursday 5 September 2024
19:30
Royal Albert Hall

Thomas Adès: Aquifer (UK premiere)

Interval

Bruckner: Symphony No. 4 in E flat major (‘Romantic’)

Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Sir Simon Rattle, conductor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/emx84f

https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/proms/bbc-proms-24/prom-61/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0022ctv

[Darkbloom]

Has anyone here had recent experience of Rattle in Bruckner? I'm always pleased to see any Bruckner symphony at the Proms but my heart sank slightly when I saw who was conducting. I always go into these things hoping for the best but I can't help feeling that it will be the same old Rattle: emphasis on certain details (often quite strikingly. presented) but at the expense of any overall shape of the work as a whole.

[Darkbloom]

The timings for this concert are curious. The RAH site claims Bruckner 4 is 55', which is ten minutes shorter than it usually is and will make for a very short concert indeed, given that the Ades is only 15'. I'm never sure how much credence to give them though. Rattle's not someone you think of as a fast conductor and it seems unlikely he's going to blast through it.

[boesendorfer]

Has anyone here had recent experience of Rattle in Bruckner? I'm always pleased to see any Bruckner symphony at the Proms but my heart sank slightly when I saw who was conducting. I always go into these things hoping for the best but I can't help feeling that it will be the same old Rattle: emphasis on certain details (often quite strikingly. presented) but at the expense of any overall shape of the work as a whole.

Not that recent (June 2019), but I heard the 4th (preceded by the Tallis Fantasia) and I thought the finale made sense, which is not always the case.

[mathias broucek]

His LSO recordings of the 4th and 6th are pretty good, I'd say. And the SOBR is a better Bruckner than the LSO!

[richardfinegold]

It would be worth it just to hear the Orchestra, and for better or worse, S.R. is one of the most important conductors of our time

[Prommer]

Well out of his (previous) comfort zone, I should have said!

[LHC]

Well out of his (previous) comfort zone, I should have said!

Rattle has previously recorded Bruckner's 4th with both the BPO and the LSO and has also recorded the 6th (LSO), 7th (CBSO and LSO), 8th (Australian World Orchestra and LSO) and 9th (BPO). The Berliner's Digital Concert Hall includes recordings of 6, 7, 8 and 9; several of these more than once.

Apart from the two recordings, he has been performing the 4th since the early 1970s and his recent LSO recording was welcomed by Richard Osborne in the Gramophone as an 'exceptional recording'. His review ended by recommending the recording and stating that it "must be the finest account of a Bruckner symphony in the LSO’s 110-year-long recorded history".

So perhaps not quite as far out of his comfort zone as you suggest.

For what its worth, I thought his performance of the 4th with the LSO was very good, both in person and on CD.

[LHC]

The timings for this concert are curious. The RAH site claims Bruckner 4 is 55', which is ten minutes shorter than it usually is and will make for a very short concert indeed, given that the Ades is only 15'. I'm never sure how much credence to give them though. Rattle's not someone you think of as a fast conductor and it seems unlikely he's going to blast through it.

If it's any help, Rattle's recent recording with the LSO lasts about 62 minutes, so the RAH estimate of 55 mins is almost certainly wrong and too short as you suggest.

I've often found estimated timings on the Proms website to be way out and have learnt not to rely on them at all.

[mathias broucek]

There is an authentic shorter finale that Rattle does in his LSO recording (which has, from memory, three different editions of the finale). But I don't think that gets us to 55 mins...

Unless he's planning the Mahler version of the finale (as recorded once by Rozhdestvensky) which is pretty severely cut in the finale

[Darkbloom]

I guess we'll find out tonight but I think the most likely answer is that the RAH site has got the timings wrong. It's more like the 3rd, and it wouldn't entirely surprise me if they mixed them up. I hope we are not going to get one of the batty variants of this symphony. It's certainly not perfect (although some more devout Brucknerians insist he never blotted a line) but you can pull the finale off, it just needs a lot of concentration from the conductor. And the audience.

[Prommer]

Rattle has previously recorded Bruckner's 4th with both the BPO and the LSO and has also recorded the 6th (LSO), 7th (CBSO and LSO), 8th (Australian World Orchestra and LSO) and 9th (BPO). The Berliner's Digital Concert Hall includes recordings of 6, 7, 8 and 9; several of these more than once.

Apart from the two recordings, he has been performing the 4th since the early 1970s and his recent LSO recording was welcomed by Richard Osborne in the Gramophone as an 'exceptional recording'. His review ended by recommending the recording and stating that it "must be the finest account of a Bruckner symphony in the LSO’s 110-year-long recorded history".

So perhaps not quite as far out of his comfort zone as you suggest.

For what its worth, I thought his performance of the 4th with the LSO was very good, both in person and on CD.

He's done all this, and they can still be outside his comfort zone.

[Darkbloom]

Regarding RO's comment about Rattle's Bruckner 4 (which I haven't heard, so I don't have an opinion one way or the other) being the best recorded Bruckner by the LSO. Have they recorded all that much over the years? It sounds like quite an impressive statement until you start to ponder it. They're certainly not one of the first bands that come to mind when discussing Bruckner and I don't think the VPO need to look to their laurels.

[Prommer]

Haitink used to do a bit of Bruckner with the LSO, years ago? 4 and 7, perhaps. No idea if recorded. This was as a guest conductor, when Colin Davis was in charge (and possibly happy to pass the Bruckie baton to Uncle Bernie).

Gergiev will have bulldozed his way through a few.

[Darkbloom]

Haitink used to do a bit of Bruckner with the LSO, years ago? 4 and 7, perhaps. No idea if recorded. This was as a guest conductor, when Colin Davis was in charge (and possibly happy to pass the Bruckie baton to Uncle Bernie).

Gergiev will have bulldozed his way through a few.

I was thinking about this. Kertesz did a very well regarded Bruckner 4 with the LSO. I'm sure there's plenty of Horenstein too. I know Colin Davis recorded the 9th on the LSO Live label.