Prom 45: Eastman / G. Mahler / Sibelius, BBC SO, Barton / Stasevska

[Ein Heldenleben]

Jus a reminder ; this concert is repeated this afternoon about 1400 BST ; I'll be listening as I haven't yet heard the Mahler and Sibelius performances, which have been much praised here.

I listened to it again in place of the Doctor Who prom - excellent prom .
If you are a Janacek fan I highly recommend last nights Glagolitic …

[Simon B]

We were there. We're not near London so it was our 4th prom in 20+years.
I found the sound level disappointing (...) wished for - I don't know what the word is - more 'presence' (...) Is this an Albert Hall problem or specific to our section (Stalls L)?

We live an hour from Symphony Hall Birmingham - are we spoilt by that?

Re Symphony Hall Brum, yes, broadly speaking. As a regular there as well as the RAH, it is much more consistent. If you're in the "posh" seats it's going to be pretty good anywhere.

That said, I'm not convinced it's as uniformly brilliant as some like to claim. To me, everything sounds like it's got a veil over it at the back of the Circle or Grand Tier. Critics will mostly only ever have been in the posh seats though.

The thing to remember about the RAH acoustic is that it hasn't really got one. It is the closest thing to an outdoor venue you can get indoors. From onstage, it's uncannily similar to playing actually outdoors on a marquee stage or whatever. Your sound just disappears. Your colleagues sound like they are miles away.

In the audience you therefore need to do the same thing you would at an outdoor concert - get close to the stage. In the stalls, it's G, 50% of H, O, 50% of M or forget it in my opinion. J, K and L, and the further reaches of H and M: The aural equivalent of looking down the wrong end of a telescope.

Ein Heldenleben is spot on to my ears that the O/M side you usually get a bass-heavy but simultaneously boomy and muddied sonic picture. The upper strings are too far away and the trumpets/trombones are physically close but with their bells pointing away from you which makes them simultaneously too prominent but with dulled timbre and impact. There are those who prefer that side for reasons I can't personally identify with, but it's still the next-least-worst option.

For anywhere that isn't the stalls, apply the same geometric principles. The choir stalls are apparently pretty good, although my limited experience of them suggests I wasn't in the right bit for that to hold true.

The actual optimal position acoustically is somewhere in the arena, about 1/3rd back in my experience, but that of course involves standing.


A less long-winded summary: The RAH has by far the worst acoustic qualities of any major orchestral venue in the UK from all but a minority of positions in the auditorium. Reasons to go therefore include all the other compensations. The least-worst option acoustically is to get pretty close to the stage by whatever means available.

[smittims]

I'm afraid I wasn't as impressed by the Mahler performance as others here were. There was nothing 'wrong' with it; maybe I just couldn't forget a favourite performance from the past.

But the Sibelius was, I think, a landmark perfomance, an intriguingly refreshing interpretation. Sibelius didn't specify tempi and Daria Stasevska used a larger range than I've heard before. The only place I felt she went too far was at the end of the second movement, where the coda was very slow until the final bars which had a scherzo-like flightiness. And I didn't like her beginning the finale with scarcely a second's pause. Maybe this was to prevent the audience applauding as they had done at the end of the first movement. But I do think there should be a pause. Conductors sometimes do this elsewhere, notably between the third and fourth movements of Beethoven's Ninth; bad show, I think .

Overall,though it was very fine, the orchestra playing at their best; I liked the timpani especially, so important in Sibelius because of his use of pedal points. I shall look out for other Sibelius from this conductor.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Re Symphony Hall Brum, yes, broadly speaking. As a regular there as well as the RAH, it is much more consistent. If you're in the "posh" seats it's going to be pretty good anywhere.

That said, I'm not convinced it's as uniformly brilliant as some like to claim. To me, everything sounds like it's got a veil over it at the back of the Circle or Grand Tier. Critics will mostly only ever have been in the posh seats though.

The thing to remember about the RAH acoustic is that it hasn't really got one. It is the closest thing to an outdoor venue you can get indoors. From onstage, it's uncannily similar to playing actually outdoors on a marquee stage or whatever. Your sound just disappears. Your colleagues sound like they are miles away.

In the audience you therefore need to do the same thing you would at an outdoor concert - get close to the stage. In the stalls, it's G, 50% of H, O, 50% of M or forget it in my opinion. J, K and L, and the further reaches of H and M: The aural equivalent of looking down the wrong end of a telescope.

Ein Heldenleben is spot on to my ears that the O/M side you usually get a bass-heavy but simultaneously boomy and muddied sonic picture. The upper strings are too far away and the trumpets/trombones are physically close but with their bells pointing away from you which makes them simultaneously too prominent but with dulled timbre and impact. There are those who prefer that side for reasons I can't personally identify with, but it's still the next-least-worst option.

For anywhere that isn't the stalls, apply the same geometric principles. The choir stalls are apparently pretty good, although my limited experience of them suggests I wasn't in the right bit for that to hold true.

The actual optimal position acoustically is somewhere in the arena, about 1/3rd back in my experience, but that of course involves standing.


A less long-winded summary: The RAH has by far the worst acoustic qualities of any major orchestral venue in the UK from all but a minority of positions in the auditorium. Reasons to go therefore include all the other compensations. The least-worst option acoustically is to get pretty close to the stage by whatever means available.

The definitive analysis of the Royal Albert Hall acoustic . Many thanks .
I would also avoid the gallery unless you have very keen hearing . Though I believe in years gone past there was something of a “party” atmosphere up there. I would also avoid any proms where the singers are amplified - the sound system just is not good enough.

[oliver sudden]

But the Sibelius was, I think, a landmark perfomance, an intriguingly refreshing interpretation.

That absolutely knocked me for a loop and I shall have to find a way to grab the audio. There was indeed a bit of portamento from the violins, and some gorgeous legato from the trumpets in the finale. The sweep of the whole thing was extraordinary and it seemed to take a quarter of an hour at most. Dust in my eye at multiple points in the finale. I like the timpani grace-notes at the end a bit tighter but I am in a small minority there and they were by no means overly drawn out.

I have no problem whatsoever with applause after that first movement: it almost seems to need that sort of release. As regards the end of the second movement: her decision to go straight into the third seems to me to come from the score, in which there is no fermata and crucially no final barline (there’s a double bar but both the lines are thin).

(The practice of going straight into the Beethoven 9 finale can also be backed up by something in the score. There’s no fermata at the end of that movement either (Grove pointed that out in his book on the symphonies a long long time ago), although there _is_ a final barline and the brass and timpani have to retune…)

Anyway a hearty YES from me to that Sibelius, if there’s anyone here wondering whether to try to squeeze a listen into their schedule.

[LMcD]

That absolutely knocked me for a loop and I shall have to find a way to grab the audio. There was indeed a bit of portamento from the violins, and some gorgeous legato from the Anyway a hearty YES from me to that Sibelius, if there’s anyone here wondering whether to try to squeeze a listen into their schedule.

Excellent advice - I shall certainly listen again while it's still on Sounds. Parts of it sounded completely new and yet exactly 'right'.

[Barbirollians]

A good concert - I agree with the praise of the Sibelius 5 , Barton sang well but it was rather lightweight Um Mitternacht but no one comes close to Ferrier who makes it into a Mahler symphony in one song - the Eastman didn't really do much for me.

[smittims]

You've reminded me that, for no good reason,I didn't mention the Eastman symphony . Although it is not remarkable in any way as a composition I rather liked it .