Prom 42: Beethoven 9 'By Heart', Aurora Orch/BBC Singers/National Youth Choir, Collon

[Ein Heldenleben]

I too noticed the uncertain start. First horn is usually Annemarie Federle and it sounded as though modern instruments were used throughout the band. The fiendish Horn 4 solo in the adagio was superb, though at the andante speed the terrors were quickly over!

Yes I think I mentioned how good the horn playing was in an earlier post. I’d forgotten the fourth horn plays that famous solo. It’s a tricky thing but the horn is supposed to be a bit more immersed in the texture at the opening than the other night isn’t it ? - could just be the effect of spot micing . Similarly with the violin sound you can’t be sure whether the sound in the hall was the same as on air. The band are obviously virtuosi with some excellent woodwind in particular. It sounds like I’m being really fussy but I would have liked to have heard more of the bassoon counter melody in that quite wonderfully harmonised string section playing of the An die Freude melody.

[jonfan]

The whole must be a sound engineer’s nightmare as the players are moving positions quite frequently. Looking forward to seeing on TV.,

[Ein Heldenleben]

The whole must be a sound engineer’s nightmare as the players are moving positions quite frequently. Looking forward to seeing on TV.,

Good point. Just listening to the Ensemble Resonanz doing the Marriage Of Figaro again . The string sound is excellent but my word the brass and drums are very dominant in the mix. The bassoon is very prominent - nicely so as Mozart like Beethoven wrote so well for it. Just shows how important the sound balance is inthe total musical effect.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

All that is to introduce my twofold admiration: that an Orchestra can play the whole work from memory and that the National Youth Choir can be trusted with much of the stressful choral burden.

Stressful choral burden indeed, but I really fail to see the purpose of this annual Proms “””AMAZING”” gimmick. An orchestra and choral could have learnt and performed multiple works in the time it took for the performers to learn this. I can see only one tiny benefit - the elimination of page turns, and even that can be avoided with foot-operated electronic screens. As for cut being stressful, all performing is stressful, so why make it worse?

[edashtav]

Stressful choral burden indeed, but I really fail to see the purpose of this annual Proms “””AMAZING”” gimmick. An orchestra and choral could have learnt and performed multiple works in the time it took for the performers to learn this. I can see only one tiny benefit - the elimination of page turns, and even that can be avoided with foot-operated electronic screens. As for cut being stressful, all performing is stressful, so why make it worse?

I was unclear, Alpie. I regard the choral parts of the 9th symphonies as a stressful sing per se regardless of the availability of choral scores.

[Rcartes]

I just wonder if those who found the musical perfirnance underwhelming were hearing it on radio alone - because being able to see the performance was so much a part of it: the way, for example, the soloists moved to the front for their solos was a significant part of the whole.

Also, playing without a score means musicians are so much more aware if the conductor and each other.

Anyway, I thought the wholecevening was terrific, a lovely, alive performance

[oddoneout]

I just wonder if those who found the musical perfirnance underwhelming were hearing it on radio alone - because being able to see the performance was so much a part of it: the way, for example, the soloists moved to the front for their solos was a significant part of the whole.

Also, playing without a score means musicians are so much more aware if the conductor and each other.

Anyway, I thought the wholecevening was terrific, a lovely, alive performance

There is no doubt(to me at least) that being able to see the performers can add a great deal to a performance. However I can't help thinking that in the context of the Proms concerts, which are intended to be broadcast to a wide audience not "there", experiencing a "good" (whether skill, interpretation or whatever) performance shouldn't be dependent on being able to see the action*. Being there or seeing what is happening(if it is filmed for later TV broadcast) should be an added bonus - the icing on the cake - not a necessary.
*There are some exceptions to that, where just hearing is to probably miss a (possibly considerable) part of the point of the concert, hence my disappointment at the lack of a TV broadcast of the Paraorchestra concert, but that I think that's a different discussion.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I just wonder if those who found the musical perfirnance underwhelming were hearing it on radio alone - because being able to see the performance was so much a part of it: the way, for example, the soloists moved to the front for their solos was a significant part of the whole.

Also, playing without a score means musicians are so much more aware if the conductor and each other.

Anyway, I thought the wholecevening was terrific, a lovely, alive performance

I listened again this time on a decent sound system . I still had all the same feelings - not enough give and take in the tempi esp in the second movement . Too staccato, overly accented , a poor violin sound (maybe too closely miked (?) , and woodwind getting themselves in a tangle with the helter skelter tempi. Compared with the Czech Phil last night - not in the same league.
The soprano was too forward in the balance but as she’s 9ne of the greatest singers in the world at the moment that’s less of a problem - wonderfully accurate pitching, Choir sang well.

[Norrette]

Watching on Beeb 4. A very interesting take on this well played piece.

[Bert Coules]

What a splendid concert (just finished on BBC4)! I was greatly impressed with the first part, beautifully presented by Nicholas Collon (how many other current conductors could carry off something like that as effectively?) and written and directed, according to the TV credits, by Jane Mitchell. The concert credits at the top of this thread also list James Bonas and Matthew Eberhardt as directors, so it's not entirely clear who exactly was responsible for which elements.

If I were to nitpick, I'd say that for a celebration of the power of joy there was an awful lot of black on that stage: couldn't we have had some colour in the clothing? And a bit more obvious joyfulness on the faces of the singers would have been nice, too. Why did the soloists scuttle away just before the end? I would like to have seen them join in with the closing chorus, as they did in the scattered encore. And not by any means particular to this concert: it would have been pleasant to have seen some acknowledgement that this performance, like all Albert Hall Proms, was being presented in the round.

But this is the nittiest of nitpicking. That was one hell of a show.

[jonfan]

One hell of a show indeed, and equal to the Berlioz Symphony production of a few years ago. A big plus was that there was no spoken presentation intruding into what was happening in the hall. TV presentation has been particularly crass this year.

[Nachtigall]

I watched the TV presentation last night, with the sound channelled through my high-end surround system and I must say the whole evening transcended mere gimmickry. As one member has stated above there was an "infectious wildness" to the performance. Exhilaration was the keynote of the final movement and that is surely the point: joy! It was clearly necessary to see and experience the performance as an event rather than simply listen to the radio with hypercritical ears. So I'm with the enthusiasts, not the grumpy sceptics.

I agree, btw, with jonfan that the TV presenters have been generally embarrassing this year.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The whole must be a sound engineer’s nightmare as the players are moving positions quite frequentl,

Indeed. Wandering around is just part of the orchestra’s attention-seeking. It’s rather like Decca’s tiresome Phase 4 recording gimmick, that artificially moved instruments to the front when the engineer decided it was a Good Thing.
Beethoven composed this work on the basic understanding that the performers were
(a) sitting down
(b) in a set position throughout
(c) in possession of sheet music

[french frank]

As a postscript: two more highly enthusiastic reviews from retired forumistas Richard Tarleton and ferneyhoughgeliebte persuaded me to bookmark the concert for tomorrow's listening - though it seems agreed that, as a concert/occasion, the televised version had appreciable added value.

[Gargoyle]

Can someone kindly explain what additional benefits there are to the orchestra playing from memory?

I really can't think of any but can certainly think of a few pitfalls. There is no benefit from listening on the radio and the scope for it to all fall apart doesn't make for a satisfying evening unless you get a thrill from that kind of thing.

The chief benefit is that it's more inclusive, which a highly valued virtue today, especially among young people and those of us who are progressive. It allows people to join in who can't read music.