Prom 33: Elgar / Holst / Stanford / Vaughan Williams, BBC SO, Maltman / Brabbins

[Darkbloom]

I can see why Maltman is the current Wotan at the ROH. It's not a huge voice but it's projected very well and he can call on some darker bass notes when required. I was a bit sceptical before, as he's always seemed a bit lightweight, but on what I heard tonight he offers a bit more than other more famous, possibly Welsh, singers who have essayed the role.

[bluestateprommer]

So it should be neither 57 ‘nor 45 but about 51’ (of music)

Not sure I’ve heard this version before

I certainly hadn't heard the 1920 version before this Prom (and indeed, it turned out to be just about 50' from start to finish; my bad for not being clearer in my quick previous comment that EH quoted). The obvious differences that I heard were in the 2nd and 4th movements, passages in each not present in the final 1936 version. In his review of Martyn Brabbins' Hyperion recording of the 1920 version with the BBC SO, John Quinn spells out the cuts, with a mention also of the Martin Yates recording:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Nov/VW_London_CDA68190.htm

"There are marked differences between the 1913 version of the score and the familiar 1936 edition. However, there are fewer differences between the 1920 and 1936 versions of the symphony. VW pruned the 1913 score radically in his first revision but subsequent surgery was much less invasive and included re-touching the scoring in places. Looking back at Lewis Foreman’s notes accompanying the Yates recording, I see that in the post-1920 revision VW excised a total of 12 bars from the slow movement and, in the finale, a further 36 bars, 25 of which were taken out of the Epilogue."

Brabbins' timing on his Hyperion recording is just shy of 52 minutes, which is interesting that he's actually slightly faster in this live performance, where Brabbins took his time in places, perhaps notably the scherzo. Perhaps MB didn't have quite the vim and verve of Andrew Manze's interpretation from 2018 with the BBC SSO. But it's always a treat to hear RVW's A London Symphony, one of my own very favorite orchestral works, and MB and the BBC SO did it very well tonight. Will definitely revisit it at least once more before access goes away in October.

In the first half, nice gesture to include the organ at the end of the Elgar, to toss for a moment budgetary concerns aside ;) . If I've ever heard Holst's Hammersmith on a recording (certainly never live), it's been so long that I can't remember. Definitely not in "'appy 'ammersmith" mode, as EotS stated. If anything, Elgar's Cockaigne was more like 'appy 'ammersmith', IMVHO. Good to hear the Stanford orchestral songs with Maltman as well, even if they didn't knock me sideways. But as others have noted, this was indeed a very well put-together and very well performed Prom, so praise to all involved.

[smittims]

I was expecting Martyn Brabbins to do the 1920 version of A London Symphony, as that was the version he chose for his CD. Martin Yates, Eugene Goossens and Dan Godfrey had recorded it in their time. I prefer it to the final version because of the extra passages in the slow movement (the wonderful drizzling rain episode that Bernard Hermann admired) and the longer Epilogue , a half-way stage from the length of the original version .

While it's true that VW cut 20 minutes out of the original, the 1920 version won't be 20 minutes shorter, because he inserted new linking pasages to compensate for the cuts. the largest cuts were in the last two movements , long episodes which presumably by 1918 he felt were too romantic for a new age. The first movement was not revised at all. I believe that when he returned from the war, during which he'd done no composing, he was doubtful whether he could begin composing again , and revising the symphony wa s a way of working himself back in. For this reason, I find the London and Pastoral symphonies closely related, the latter being the result of his experience with the former.

I must say I've never thought of Hammesmith nor the end of the London symphony as 'lonely' or 'unhappy'. Wonderful, mysterious , yes.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I was expecting Martyn Brabbins to do the 1920 version of A London Symphony, as that was the version he chose for his CD. Martin Yates, Eugene Goossens and Dan Godfrey had recorded it in their time. I prefer it to the final version because of the extra passages in the slow movement (the wonderful drizzling rain episode that Bernard Hermann admired) and the longer Epilogue , a half-way stage from the length of the original version .

While it's true that VW cut 20 minutes out of the original, the 1920 version won't be 20 minutes shorter, because he inserted new linking pasages to compensate for the cuts. the largest cuts were in the last two movements , long episodes which presumably by 1918 he felt were too romantic for a new age. The first movement was not revised at all. I believe that when he returned from the war, during which he'd done no composing, he was doubtful whether he could begin composing again , and revising the symphony wa s a way of working himself back in. For this reason, I find the London and Pastoral symphonies closely related, the latter being the result of his experience with the former.

I must say I've never thought of Hammesmith nor the end of the London symphony as 'lonely' or 'unhappy'. Wonderful, mysterious , yes.

Thanks for the detailed clarification
If Brabbins always plays the 1920 then I’ve definitely heard it before. It was a wonderful performance with the BBCSO strings particularly outstanding. The London Symphony is supposed to take its title from Tono-Bungay one of the great largely unread novels. I’ve been trying to cut and paste the relevant para where the anti hero George sails his (no doubt shoddily built ) new X20 destroyer down the Thames. He steams through the “Third movement of the London Symphony “ - it’s docklands. In essence the majesty and pageantry is all a sham - London is corrupt and decaying - the capital of an Empire built on exploitation and commercialism. A similar feel to the Thames in Heart Of Darkess. Far from being a celebration of Edwardian London the symphony can be read as an insight into its dark though vibrant even exultant heart. The game is up and RVW like Wells and Indeed Kipling and Conrad at the other end of the political spectrum knew it,

[Historian]

... But it's always a treat to hear RVW's A London Symphony, one of my own very favorite orchestral works, and MB and the BBC SO did it very well tonight. Will definitely revisit it at least once more before access goes away in October.

In the first half, nice gesture to include the organ at the end of the Elgar, to toss for a moment budgetary concerns aside ;) . If I've ever heard Holst's Hammersmith on a recording (certainly never live), it's been so long that I can't remember. Definitely not in "'appy 'ammersmith" mode, as EotS stated. If anything, Elgar's Cockaigne was more like 'appy 'ammersmith', IMVHO. Good to hear the Stanford orchestral songs with Maltman as well, even if they didn't knock me sideways. But as others have noted, this was indeed a very well put-together and very well performed Prom, so praise to all involved.

Fully agree. I only decided to go on the morning and I am delighted I made the effort. Thought I knew Hammersmith but obviously not that well: it will repay further study evidently. That and the Stanford were not necessarily crowd-pleasers, unlike the Elgar, but the songs were also well worth hearing. I do know the London Symphony properly but hadn't heard the 'intermediate' version before. This was a very fine performance and made me promise myself (as so often before) to go to more concerts outside the Proms season. All in all, a very fine concert.

[Historian]

That said... why can't people at least try and cover up/mute their coughing? Lots of wonderful hushed playing last night, but far too many intrusions. That's before getting on to people dropping their mobile 'phones (at least two of which went off during the performance). I don't think we had someone knocking their metal water bottle over with a loud clang last night but, if not, that's the first time in four concerts I have attended where that has not happened.

The price you pay for being there I suppose.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That said... why can't people at least try and cover up/mute their coughing? Lots of wonderful hushed playing last night, but far too many intrusions. That's before getting on to people dropping their mobile 'phones (at least two of which went off during the performance). I don't think we had someone knocking their metal water bottle over with a loud clang last night but, if not, that's the first time in four concerts I have attended where that has not happened.

The price you pay for being there I suppose.

Well that’s the contemporary London Symphony for you - coughs, phones and clatter no doubt RVW would work that in to a 2024 reworking…

[Sir Velo]

IMHO VW's revisions tightened the structure, preventing the symphony from rambling despite moments of great beauty in the earlier version. However, last night's performance of the Lento was absolutely magnificent, building to an overwhelming climax. The only disappointment being the outbreak of polite applause which destroyed in a moment that magical moment of time suspended that Brabbins and the BBC Symphony had so expertly wrought.

[Historian]

IMHO VW's revisions tightened the structure, preventing the symphony from rambling despite moments of great beauty in the earlier version. However, last night's performance of the Lento was absolutely magnificent, building to an overwhelming climax. The only disappointment being the outbreak of polite applause which destroyed in a moment that magical moment of time suspended that Brabbins and the BBC Symphony had so expertly wrought.

Yes, that worked so well apart from the interruption you mention. However there was a long, long pause at the very end of the last movement.

I now need to buy the Hickox original version to compare and contrast, as well as the version I heard last night. Could get expensive.

[Historian]

Well that’s the contemporary London Symphony for you - coughs, phones and clatter no doubt RVW would work that in to a 2024 reworking…

Thank you: that thought has cheered me up.

[Darkbloom]

Fully agree. I only decided to go on the morning and I am delighted I made the effort. Thought I knew Hammersmith but obviously not that well: it will repay further study evidently. That and the Stanford were not necessarily crowd-pleasers, unlike the Elgar, but the songs were also well worth hearing. I do know the London Symphony properly but hadn't heard the 'intermediate' version before. This was a very fine performance and made me promise myself (as so often before) to go to more concerts outside the Proms season. All in all, a very fine concert.

I thought it was an odd choice of songs and the first half seemed to peter out a bit towards the end. It was a pity because I thought Maltman was very impressive but only got poliite applause.

[oliver sudden]

Thank you: that thought has cheered me up.

Nowadays there would be a QR code for people to scan which would make their phones download an app so they could all play the Westminster chimes on a cue from the conductor and it would really make them feel like they were an integral part of the symphony.

[Historian]

Nowadays there would be a QR code for people to scan which would make their phones download an app so they could all play the Westminster chimes on a cue from the conductor and it would really make them feel like they were an integral part of the symphony.

Please don't suggest that to anyone in authority at the BBC.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Please don't suggest that to anyone in authority at the BBC.

A.P.Herbert had a party game in which he would bet a guest £10 that they couldn’t accurate whistle the fourth quarter chimes. Very few people can - they miss that the third bar contains a subtle inversion in what would otherwise be a repetition of the first.
They tend to be indelibly etched on any one who’s ever done a world service or R4 news broadcast as they had (or used to have ) their own fader on a sound desk. Cue many a happy few seconds on a night shift putting them through any audio processing that happened to be around…

[smittims]

VW actually lived in Chelsea when he was writing the symphony so he must have heard Big Ben countless times. I remember especially hearing it several times about 6 pm. when crossing the bridge from the 'work ' part of London (offices in Horseferry Road to the 'leisure' part (i.e. the Festival Hall Cafeteria, on my way to a South Bank Concert) , so I have happy memories of it.

By the way, Tono-Bungay is well worth reading. I think it's my favourite Wells novel. It was inspired by the rags-to-riches phenomenon of the time, a patent product capturing the public's imagination and being sold for many times its production cost; e,g, Beecham's Pills. I suppose todays' 'Dot.Com millianaires' would be an analogy.