Prom 28: Heiner Goebbels - Songs of Wars I Have Seen, London Sinfonietta / OAE, Rooke

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  • bluestateprommer
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 3007

    Prom 28: Heiner Goebbels - Songs of Wars I Have Seen, London Sinfonietta / OAE, Rooke

    Friday 9 August 2024
    22:30
    Royal Albert Hall

    Heiner Goebbels: Songs of Wars I Have Seen (first performance at The Proms)

    London Sinfonietta
    Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
    Chloe Rooke, conductor (Proms debut artist)

    The London Sinfonietta and period-instrument outfit the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment come together to perform Heiner Goebbels’s Songs of Wars I Have Seen, 17 years after they gave the work’s premiere




    Live at the BBC Proms: London Sinfonietta & OAE perform Heiner Goebbels' unique work.
    Starts
    09-08-24 22:30
    Ends
    09-08-24 23:30
    Location
    Royal Albert Hall
  • smittims
    Full Member
    • Aug 2022
    • 4062

    #2
    Does anyone know anything about this composer? I'm at a loss to know what to expect. Will it be like Berio's Coro or Nono's Como una ola de fuerza e luz, or a cross between Sondheim and Bob Dylan?

    Comment

    • Quarky
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 2656

      #3
      He seems to be more in the Stage Craft area than composers such as Berio and Nono:
      . The facts prove that he fully succeeded in escaping categories: in order to try to define him, to qualify his works, even schematically, one must resort to circumlocutions. "Scenic concerts", "musical theatre", "performative installation", among other expressions used by Goebbels himself, are all approximations aimed at defining an artistic production where music, texts, theatre and visual elements merge into a whole that is irreducible to the sum of its parts.:: Pierre Rigaudiere
      But I await comments from someone more knowledgeable.



      Comment

      • Pulcinella
        Host
        • Feb 2014
        • 10877

        #4
        Originally posted by smittims View Post
        Does anyone know anything about this composer? I'm at a loss to know what to expect. Will it be like Berio's Coro or Nono's Como una ola de fuerza e luz, or a cross between Sondheim and Bob Dylan?
        I have found this:

        Ensemble Studio6 conducted by Siân EdwardsBelgrade Drama Theatre, BEMUS FestivalBelgrade, October 2013sound engineer Ian Deardenvideo by Srdjan Obračević

        Comment

        • Ein Heldenleben
          Full Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 6734

          #5
          Originally posted by smittims View Post
          Does anyone know anything about this composer? I'm at a loss to know what to expect. Will it be like Berio's Coro or Nono's Como una ola de fuerza e luz, or a cross between Sondheim and Bob Dylan?
          The only piece / album I’ve heard is A House Of Call. The YouTube video above doesn’t do justice to the extreme precision of his writing .
          Pretty heavy duty post serialist who is an absolute master of complex orchestral textures and soundscapes. He’s not like any of the composers you mention above. Berio was a master of simplicity really …

          Comment

          • smittims
            Full Member
            • Aug 2022
            • 4062

            #6
            Thanks, Heldenleben and others. I think many who've listened to Berio might think your comment an intended paradox!

            Comment

            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37576

              #7
              From the little I have heard of his music and ideas I want to find out more about Goebbels. Provisionally I would place him as a continuation and further elaboration of Bernt Aloys Zimmerman's unfinished quest for a renewed Gesamtkunstwerk conception incorporating approaches and gestures from free jazz, free improvisation and the more sophisticated outreaches of art rock as have been subsequently defined by figures and groups as superficially incompatible as Eisler, Carla Bley, Alex Schlippenbach, and Slapp Happy/Henry Cow. Either Goebbels could prove to be musical Modernisms' final salvation or I have got him completely wrong. For me this will be the most interesting Prom this year.

              Comment

              • Ein Heldenleben
                Full Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 6734

                #8
                Originally posted by smittims View Post
                Thanks, Heldenleben and others. I think many who've listened to Berio might think your comment an intended paradox!
                Well I once went to a Boulez / Berio concert and came away with that distinct impression!

                Comment

                • Ein Heldenleben
                  Full Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 6734

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                  From the little I have heard of his music and ideas I want to find out more about Goebbels. Provisionally I would place him as a continuation and further elaboration of Bernt Aloys Zimmerman's unfinished quest for a renewed Gesamtkunstwerk conception incorporating approaches and gestures from free jazz, free improvisation and the more sophisticated outreaches of art rock as have been subsequently defined by figures and groups as superficially incompatible as Eisler, Carla Bley, Alex Schlippenbach, and Slapp Happy/Henry Cow. Either Goebbels could prove to be musical Modernisms' final salvation or I have got him completely wrong. For me this will be the most interesting Prom this year.
                  He’s certainly very eclectic - uncategorisable really . The two works mentioned here in the comments seem to have little in common .

                  Comment

                  • smittims
                    Full Member
                    • Aug 2022
                    • 4062

                    #10
                    Thanks, S-A, that's helpful. I'm familiar with Zimmermann and admire his music, so I'll listen in to the Goebbels. My question was prompted by a desire to avoid any time-wasting in case it was another of these 'crossover' things.

                    Comment

                    • oliver sudden
                      Full Member
                      • Feb 2024
                      • 595

                      #11
                      I’ve played Songs of War… —crossover it absolutely isn’t, but neither is it as confronting as, say, the Zimmermann Requiem (what is?) so I wouldn’t go in expecting something as hard-edged as that.

                      Comment

                      • bluestateprommer
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 3007

                        #12
                        Heard this yesterday; an excellent performance indeed from all around, and a fine feather in her cap indeed for Chloe Rooke in her Proms debut. I'd never heard this work before in any format, so I approached it totally cold, so to speak. Definitely worth a listen for anyone who missed it. Nice to know that Heiner G. was in the house, and also working at the sound board, presumably.

                        I didn't check the RAH site for how many seats had sold prior to the concert, but my guess is that the hall was something like 95% empty, given the double-whammy of (1) a Late Night Prom and (2) a contemporary work. It would be interesting to know also how many folks did the double-header of both Friday night Proms.
                        Last edited by bluestateprommer; 10-08-24, 12:34.

                        Comment

                        • smittims
                          Full Member
                          • Aug 2022
                          • 4062

                          #13
                          Minority report from me, I'm afraid. I did try , but this isn't for me. I might have liked it more if it was just the music and not the talking. I know that's 'missing the point' but there ya go. I agree that the musical side of it was well performed.

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37576

                            #14
                            I made an early assumption that the somewhat minimal and oft-repeated character of the musical material making up the work was supposed to be justified by the verbal commentary. The former was largely semi-pastiche in nature, and since I was a bit too tired followjng a rather heavy day to follow the latter, I am going to have to give this Prom another listen some time.

                            Comment

                            • Quarky
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 2656

                              #15
                              A Guardian review, 17 years old! https://www.theguardian.com/music/2007/jul/14/2

                              The spoken text seems to be the most important element in this work, imv.

                              Comment

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