Prom 15: Anna Clyne / Messiaen, BBC Phil / The Swingles, Osborne / Millar / Collon

[kernelbogey]

I thought the Messiaen quite wooden/leaden in places, especially at the start: not much joy....

Watched and listened on tv last night: something was missing from Turangalila, which I am finding hard to put into words, but I think the closest I can come is to say that - notwithstanding the brilliance of all the musicians - Collon was unable to bring out fully the piece's eroticism.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Watched and listened on tv last night: something was missing from Turangalila, which I am finding hard to put into words, but I think the closest I can come is to say that - notwithstanding the brilliance of all the musicians - Collon was unable to bring out fully the piece's eroticism.

Yes it lacked that all important orgiastic quality . I wonder if the somewhat undemonstrative conductor dampened things . The radio interval feature with Bernstein rehearsing was absolutely fascinating with his meticulous instructions to the percussion . I imagine he had no problem with conveying emotion and indeed eroticism.

[kernelbogey]

Yes it lacked that all important orgiastic quality . I wonder if the somewhat undemonstrative conductor dampened things ....

Though he did close his eyes and look 'ecstatic' from time to time... I thought at the time 'Bernstein-like'.

[Petrushka]

Same here Petrushka! First half was some choral music sung by the BBC Northern Singers conducted by Stephen Wilkinson. The Turangalila was conducted by Gilbert Amy with Tristan Murail on Ondes, Loriod on piano and the orchestra had one Peter Donohoe as a member of the percussion artillery. I do remember Messiaen being called to the stage after the performance, Free Trade Hall.

Also there, though I obviously didn't know at the time, was our fellow Forum member, makropulos.

I went backstage after the concert, met Messiaen and Loriod and they signed my programme which I still have.

Apparently, makropulos went one better and got Messiaen to sign the score of Turangalila!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Though he did close his eyes and look 'ecstatic' from time to time... I thought at the time 'Bernstein-like'.

Didn’t Karajan conduct with his eyes constantly closed ?

[kernelbogey]

Didn’t Karajan conduct with his eyes constantly closed ?

Sorry, I don't know, not being a fan of HvK.

[oliver sudden]

Sorry, I don't know, not being a fan of HvK.

Neither am I but here you go…

https://youtu.be/e0Iq1vnMt54?feature=shared

[smittims]

Herbert was someties photographed conducting with his eyes closed , which prompted the journalistic fiction that he always did so. It belongs with tales that the English landscape north of Watford is all slag heaps and Coronation Street, or that 'trainspotters' always wear blue anoraks and brown trousers and don't have girl friends. As Eliot said 'humankind cannot bear very much reality'.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Herbert was someties photographed conducting with his eyes closed , which prompted the journalistic fiction that he always did so. It belongs with tales that the English landscape north of Watford is all slag heaps and Coronation Street, or that 'trainspotters' always wear blue anoraks and brown trousers and don't have girl friends. As Eliot said 'humankind cannot bear very much reality'.

In all the films I’ve seen of him he has his eyes closed BUT he was in charge of the edit so may have chosen closed eyes cutaways to perpetuate a myth. The three times I saw him live he has his back to me (not surprisingly) so I couldn’t tell.

[edashtav]

I think it's just that peoplel have become familiar with it, and younger orchestral players have emerged for whom the idiom is no longer strange. A similar change has affected Tippett's music

I
I agree with you smittims.

[kuligin]

Also there, though I obviously didn't know at the time, was our fellow Forum member, makropulos.

I went backstage after the concert, met Messiaen and Loriod and they signed my programme which I still have.

Apparently, makropulos went one better and got Messiaen to sign the score of Turangalila!

And I brushed past the great man on the back stairs as he made is way to the stage and I rushed to catch a train!

[edashtav]

I think I'm answering a Personal Message but I'm flummoxed as I can't find PM's on the new For3 system and I've forgotten the pseudonym of my correspondent but suspect in real life he's Henry.

THE BURDEN OF WHAT HE PENNED WAS:

He enjoyed my posts: THANKS!
In a earlier Turangalila thread, I had referred to Turangalila as a 'Period Piece'. What did I mean?

This is difficult for me to answer as my life changed at the end of 2023 when I had a long period in hospital and suffered much delirium.

My memories of before hospital are inexact.
Historically, I encountered Messaien's LOVE PERIOD whilst at the University of Birmingham.
1. I bought and played often an LP of Messaien's Cinq Rechants.
2. I attended a thrilling concert at the BarbeR Institute by Noelle Barker SOPRANO and Robert Sherlaw JOHNSON PIANO which included Messaien's extended HARAWI song cycle. I became obsessed by the piece and bought a copy on behalf of a Public Library. I studied this vocal score, intently.
3. Before leaving Uni I bought Turangalila on, I think, a 2 record album. I listened to it increasingly critically as I found some of the music too orgiastic and schmalzy for my virginal tastes.

To sum up: in a period of three years I had fallen seriously in love with the three pillars of Messaien's LOVE period and had then partly resiled from being bessotted, if that is a word, feeling that Messaien had gone over the top in his LOVE symphony creating something analogous to the similar lack of taste shown by Charles Koechlin in his 7 Stars Symphony which I owned on cassette.

Thus , just as Picasso had a Blue period , Messaien had a T&I, pseudo- Porn., LOVE ❤ period.

I think that's what I thought, then...
best wishes,
ED

[Darkbloom]

Herbert was someties photographed conducting with his eyes closed , which prompted the journalistic fiction that he always did so. It belongs with tales that the English landscape north of Watford is all slag heaps and Coronation Street, or that 'trainspotters' always wear blue anoraks and brown trousers and don't have girl friends. As Eliot said 'humankind cannot bear very much reality'.

I've read interviews with Karajan where he talks about conducting with his eyes closed, though, so it was obviously something he did pretty frequently and didn't mind defending.

[Nick Armstrong]

I went backstage after the concert, met Messiaen and Loriod and they signed my programme which I still have.

Apparently, makropulos went one better and got Messiaen to sign the score of Turangalila!

One of my most treasured musical encounters was an apéritif with him and all the parish ‘great & good’ at La Trinité in Paris after he’d played the organ at the Palm Sunday Mass - concluding with a 20 minute improvisation!

I was able to chat with him and he signed a score of L’Ascension for an organist friend of mine - and a CD of same, for me…

[Nick Armstrong]

I thought the Messiaen quite wooden/leaden in places, especially at the start: not much joy.

That may account in part for much of it leaving me cold… I was thinking that (with the exception of Joie du sang… and the Finale, which are inexhaustibly fun) ‘I’m so over this piece’ having done it to death somewhat years ago. The gargantuan / bombastic chordal sequences left me