Prom 5: Schoenberg / Zemlinsky, BBC NOW, Bancroft

[Pulcinella]

I wonder if Debussy heard Arnold’s take on the subject, and if so, what he thought of it? Possibly not sufficiently Russian (😉)?

Who would the equivalent Russian characters in the tale be?

[Master Jacques]

I wonder if Debussy heard Arnold’s take on the subject, and if so, what he thought of it? Possibly not sufficiently Russian (😉)?

Given his extremely patriotic anti-German statements at the start of World War I, and the searing propaganda song ('Noël des enfants qui n'ont plus de maison') he wrote in 1915, I suppose he would have been only too glad to be criticised for his disdain for Teutonic forms. But as he died in 1918, before Schoenberg really got stuck into him, we'll never know.

[Barbirollians]

A proper Prom this . A great idea ,splendidly executed by Bancroft and his forces . Presented with intelligence and with an interesting interval interviewee . Sad to hear it was not well attended but it was hardly promoted .

[Darkbloom]

I wasn't familiar with Bancroft until I saw him last week. He definitely has something. There are no irrelevant histrionics, he seems totally focused on the music and was getting what he wanted from the orchestra. You hear lots of conductors, but only a few make you sit up and take notice.

[Pulcinella]

Schoenberg's Pelleas und Melisande is the subject of September's BBC MM Building a Library feature (Erik Levi).

The choices are as follows.

The best recording:
Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra/Järvi

Three other great recordings:
BPO/Karajan
Chicago SO/Boulez (1992, the earlier of his two recordings)
Gürzenich Orchestra of Cologne/Stenz

One to avoid:
Orchestre de Paris/Barenboim

[smittims]

Thanks , that's interesting. I have to say, though, that I've always been sceptical of their 'one to avoid' mentions. In my view, anyone who 'avoided' Karajan's 1971 Bruckner 7 or Beecham's set of the last 12 Haydn symphonies is missing a uniquely valuable musical experience.

I'd forgotten that Barenboim recorded the work, though I find I have a copy! I'll give it a spin some time and see if I can guess why they didn't like it. For me the two 'reference' recordings are by Robert Craft , Toronto 1964 and Abbey Road, 1999, though I also admire the Karajan and Barbirolli (yes, surprisingly, JB recorded it for HMV ) . . Incidentally, Boulez recorded it also in the 1970s with the New York Philharmonic and in 2006 with the Gusatv Mahler Jugendorchester.

[Pulcinella]

Thanks , that's interesting. I have to say, though, that I've always been sceptical of their 'one to avoid' mentions. In my view, anyone who 'avoided' Karajan's 1971 Bruckner 7 or Beecham's set of the last 12 Haydn symphonies is missing a uniquely valuable musical experience.

I'd forgotten that Barenboim recorded the work, though I find I have a copy! I'll give it a spin some time and see if I can guess why they didn't like it. For me the two 'reference' recordings are by Robert Craft , Toronto 1964 and Abbey Road, 1999, though I also admire the Karajan and Barbirolli (yes, surprisingly, JB recorded it for HMV ) . . Incidentally, Boulez recorded it also in the 1970s with the New York Philharmonic and in 2006 with the Gusatv Mahler Jugendorchester.

This is the Boulez recording that Levi recommends.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7953782--schoenberg-pelleas-und-melisande-op-5-etc

I found the later one, though no mention of an NYPO one (though his NYPO recording of Verklärte Nacht has been coupled with the OdeP Barenboim Pelleas).
Regarding the Barenboim performance, Levi says:

As a brilliant Wagner conductor, you'd expect Daniel Barenboim to be one of the ideal interpreters of this work. He certainly negotiates the ebb and flow of Schoenberg's musical argument vert convincingly, but is rather let down by some indifferent playing from the Orchestre de Paris. Sony's engineering does him no favours either, with a congested sound in the big climaxes as well as unexpected spotlighting of solo instruments and muffled textures in some other passages.

Hope you don't mind being thought of as a brilliant Wagner conductor.

(One for Pedants' Paradise and/or our Grumble Thread!)

[Serial_Apologist]

Hope you don't mind being thought of as a brilliant Wagner conductor.

(One for Pedants' Paradise and/or our Grumble Thread!)

Through no fault of Barenboim, that would probably be seen as no problem in "the world of today".

[Barbirollians]

Listened to this again today on Sounds having heard it in less good sound in France - an outstanding concert much the best of the season so far of those I have heard.

[smittims]

Given the discussion above I've put this here. I took the opportunity to catch up on two recordings of the Schoenberg that I hadn't heard for years. Barenboim's 1977 Orchestre de Paris (but oddly not published till 1984) pleased me very much. I can't understand why The BBC Music Magazine called it 'one to avoid'. I thought it as good as Karajan or Barbirolli.

The other was Robert Craft's first recording, made in Toronto in 1964 with the CBC Orchestra, probably in time left over from a Stravinsky Session. I understand Igor Feodorovitch insisted that Bob be allowed to do this on several occasions. It must have been done in minimal rehearsal time, but for all that it's one of my favourite two recordings of the work,the other being his CD with the Philharmonia, made at Abbey Road. I listened to it on my 50-year old CBS Lp, and the quality is amazingly good considering its age. It will, I expect, be in the recent big SONY box, whish I don't have as I have nearly all his recordings in other formats. And it;s probably oi Spotify if anyone wants to hear it.