BBC Singers reprieve and early Proms 2023 news

[Ein Heldenleben]

Will Gompertz in his Today radio interview (I posted on the BBC orchestras thread earlier this evening) said that he'd worked long enough in the BBC to know that enough management jobs could be axed, the loss of which wouldn't be noticed, to find the funds to avert the cuts. At which point, the presenter hurriedly announced they'd "run out of time"..........

(I still hold in mind the Victoria Wood sketch set in a village hall where the BBC "Head of Chairs" was laying down the law about the placement of... chairs.

Will worked in one area of the BBC (news ) for about 12 years. I worked across 8 different areas in 35 and you wouldn’t believe how diverse the BBC is in terms of how it’s run - and that’s part of the problem .You could just as easily argue that the BBC doesn’t have enough managers - particularly effective ones. All those stars who slag off the Beeb would almost certainly never have had a career without it - largely because of the very high quality of production and technical teams they had the privilege of working with.

[Barbirollians]

Interesting how many of the commenters in the Guardian aren’t particularly supportive . There’s a few “rich classical musician “ , “elitist , white , problematic. “ type comments .Classical music unfortunately has a big “image” problem and one it largely doesn’t deserve. Some on the right dislike the idea of public subsidy for the Arts , some on the left think it’s elitist and middle class. Of course it’s very largely none of these things but these days perception is reality as we know. The irony is that some of the most “elitist “ elements e.g.Country House Opera aren’t subsidised much at all. So all the outreach work that the LSO and BSO fir example do gets completely overlooked.
In my view Rattles speech was a bit too anti BBC - it’s not their fault they are having to make 15 to 20 per cent savings across the board.

Just tell them Jeremy Corbyn is a fan of Mahler they will change their minds

The BBC is making choices - it just spent £87 million on a new set for Eastenders.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Just tell them Jeremy Corbyn is a fan of Mahler they will change their minds

The BBC is making choices - it just spent £87 million on a new set for Eastenders.

Yes well the spending on the EastEnders set comes under my post #16 - “particularly effective ones.” Of course when you divide the cost by its likely lifetime and number of viewers you can make it look like value for money but it’s ridiculous.It’s a set not an Oligarch’s Riveria villa . You could have rebuilt the whole of the real East End after the war for that money.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I do think the BBC has to accept some responsibility. For years, they have pursued a policy of constant expansion. Beginning with radio, there was the Home Service (later R4) and then the Light Programme (later R2). Then the Third Programme was introduced as a high quality evening channel, being expanded with the Music Programme and the Study Programme in the 1960s. Pirate radio was rife at the time, so the BBC launched their own version of this: Radio 1. Meanwhile, BBC Radio Leicester started the local radio service which expanded nationwide. Later, Radios 5, 6 & 7 were added to the mix.

Television began with just one BBC channel, with ITV providing the only competition from the late 1950s onwards. Then BBC2 came along, later followed by the BBC copying ITV's proposed Breakfast TV, with very great haste. Then followed CBBC, CBeebies, BBC 24 hour News, BBC 3, BBC 4, BBC iPlayer.

The bubble was bound to burst.

Slightly sobering thought that Radio7 or Radio 4 extra which operates on a tiny budget has pretty much the same audience Figures as Radio 3 . It’s shortly to go on - demand only. I wonder if in 10 years there will be a radio based Radio 3 ? The only thing it’s got going for it is the large amount of live broadcasting and even that is diminishing. The number of evening concerts that are now Eurovision repeats is astonishing.

[Serial_Apologist]

Will Gompertz in his Today radio interview (I posted on the BBC orchestras thread earlier this evening) said that he'd worked long enough in the BBC to know that enough management jobs could be axed, the loss of which wouldn't be noticed, to find the funds to avert the cuts. At which point, the presenter hurriedly announced they'd "run out of time"..........

(I still hold in mind the Victoria Wood sketch set in a village hall where the BBC "Head of Chairs" was laying down the law about the placement of... chairs.

The Today programme always reserves "problematic" items demanding of time and in-depth discussion to the last 5 or 10 minutes, ensuring that they can use this excuse and don't have to be seen as in any way offering solutions; all under the guise of "balance", of course.

[muzzer]

Will Gompertz in his Today radio interview (I posted on the BBC orchestras thread earlier this evening) said that he'd worked long enough in the BBC to know that enough management jobs could be axed, the loss of which wouldn't be noticed, to find the funds to avert the cuts. At which point, the presenter hurriedly announced they'd "run out of time"..........

(I still hold in mind the Victoria Wood sketch set in a village hall where the BBC "Head of Chairs" was laying down the law about the placement of... chairs.

To the extent Gompertz’s role at the Barbican is arts not admin/facilities based I’ll hear his comments about resources and cuts at the Beeb, but the absolute stste of every aspect of the Barbican’s offering other than the music/art on offer leaves me exasperated after every visit. The management of it as a supposed leading cultural centre is an utter disgrace - from the state of the gents to the abysmal catering, to the mud on the stairs gratis as you stumble across the estate to the tube.

[french frank]

If we can include late news too: I thought the BBC online news post-Proms overview coverage of the season was rather more detailed, and music-centred, than it has been in the past, including a reminder about the fate of the BBC Singers - pointing no fingers. The photo of Mark Cox with streamers entwined round his flute was rather good, I thought

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66765201

[Cockney Sparrow]

Richard Morrison in the Times on Thursday. The article is very positive – one of the best seasons ever (in his 60 years of Promming) citing a number of outstanding Proms which would remain in the memory. Performers striving for the very best…… The Proms at venues outside London brought in new audience.

Audiences back to pre-Pandemic level, a good number of sold out Proms. The new audience, that 3.2 million watched the first night (beats Match of the Day by a very substantial margin), and the Tik-Tok liaison has produced 900,000 views of Proms videos (it is felt largely by those under 30). That latter will I imagine have the “Corporation’s mission” fixated management ululating in pure pleasure. (This is all BBC stats, of course).

He suggests that the BBC’s move against the orchestras, and the Singers, shocked musicians and music lovers who had (still) taken for granted the BBC’s commitment to classical music, and that brought about a defence to show how much it was valued, which extended into support for and during this season.

The headline of the article is a question - whether the BBC Top Brass will take note, despite the Triumph.
He finishes with:

I’m told that the BBC’s top echelons have, this year, been conspicuously present at numerous Proms. If that’s the case, I hope they picked up the same vibes as I did. Classical music is not a niche activity for a few. Given the right mainstream broadcasting coverage, it can touch the hearts of millions. Only the BBC has the resources and public service mandate to do that. Let’s hope it never again wavers in that mission.

For myself – the best hope is that the proposal will be consigned to the bin and its not mentioned again. The worst outcome is that they are biding their time but will get their tokenistic cuts at a later date or in another element of programming, but just as damaging. Only time will tell I suggest - are there any examples of the BBC management being refreshingly honest in such a situation?.

[edashtav]

I have thoroughly enjoyed the 2023 Proms and have so often appreciated the high standards achieved. My five never to be forgotten perfomances were:
Top five

1. Leila Josefowisc BBC SO under Sakari Oramo in Berg’s Violin Concerto
2. Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra conducted by Kirill Karabits in Rachmaninov’s 2nd Symphony
3. Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra with Vladimir Jurowski in Rachmaninov’s 3rd Symphony
4. The Glyndebourne forces in Poulenc’s Dialogues des Carmélites
5. The Monteverdi + etc forces but - JEG in Berlioz’s epic Les Troyens

I hope that the Beeb’s bean counters have been chastened.

[Pulcinella]

Not sure if this is the best thread, but (as usual) Richard Morrison is spot on in a review (in today's Times) of a BBCS concert in St Paul's Knightsbridge. The 'he' in question is Lord Frost.

It would be a shame if he missed it, because the BBC, in its unfathomable wisdom, has apparently decided not to broadcast the event in its entirety but instead to spread the separate items over a succession of Radio 3 afternoon concerts at some unspecified time in the future. I hope that’s just a random piece of corporate idiocy and not some devious way of undermining the BBC Singers again.

[oddoneout]

Not sure if this is the best thread, but (as usual) Richard Morrison is spot on in a review (in today's Times) of a BBCS concert in St Paul's Knightsbridge. The 'he' in question is Lord Frost.

spread the separate items over a succession of Radio 3 afternoon concerts at some unspecified time in the future. I hope that’s just a random piece of corporate idiocy and not some devious way of undermining the BBC Singers again.

The gentleman evidently doesn't follow Afternoon Concert or he would know that such stripping has a been a feature for some years, and the BBCS haven't been specially singled out for such treatment.
It is a piece of corporate idiocy, but not random as such.

[Pulcinella]

The gentleman evidently doesn't follow Afternoon Concert or he would know that such stripping has a been a feature for some years, and the BBCS haven't been specially singled out for such treatment.
It is a piece of corporate idiocy, but not random as such.

Sadly true!

[bluestateprommer]

Alex Ross in The New Yorker gave his perspective from his recent visit to London, which includes this bit:

"What impresses an American observer is the ferocity with which the British have resisted the posturing of self-protective bigwigs. At the Last Night of the Proms, the BBC Singers received a sustained roar of applause—symbolic of an upwelling of protest that had forced the BBC to reconsider its termination of the group. When, last year, the head of Arts Council called incoherently for a focus on “opera in car parks, opera in pubs, opera on your tablet,” newspapers and social media were flooded with creative sniggering. (“Nissan Dorma” was a headline in the Guardian.) If only the pruning away of classical music at Lincoln Center, the Brooklyn Academy of Music, and other New York institutions were sparking a comparable outcry. You hear much backstage grumbling but little public opposition. British music lovers know that once the smallest sliver of terrain is surrendered it will never be given back."

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/10/02/londons-feisty-music-scene

[Ein Heldenleben]

Alex Ross in The New Yorker gave his perspective from his recent visit to London, which includes this bit:



https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...ty-music-scene

Good piece.
What also strikes me is that one searches in vain for a piece of equivalent length or critical acuity in any UK newspaper.
He’s right about the standard of arena singing. In one prom the arena sang better than the orchestra. Thing is it’s full of impecunious music students - present and past.