BBC PROMS PRESS RELEASE 4.55pm on Facebook

[Bryn]

So, Sam, the success of the Proms shows how popular classical music is, does it? Well, how about making the Proms 100% classical next year? Hmm? Isn't that the logical next step, Sam?

What, and dispense with an approach introduced by Henry Wood, early in the Proms? I don't think so. Just try to stick to the good,as in Rossini's dictum, later also ascribed to the likes of Sachmo and the Duke, that there are only two kinds of music, good and bad.

[Master Jacques]

Or the appeal of the programming?

Quite so. If BBC's audience stats are remotely in the correct ballpark, they need to look at how they can improve the programming, in order to stop such a damaging level of "churn" and rebuild the returning customer base which they're losing. The idea of patting themselves on the back for attracting 41% newcomers, rather than understanding this figure as a mark of failure, reveals embarrassing naivete.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Quite so. If BBC's audience stats are remotely in the correct ballpark, they need to look at how they can improve the programming, in order to stop such a damaging level of "churn" and rebuild the returning customer base which they're losing. The idea of patting themselves on the back for attracting 41% newcomers, rather than understanding this figure as a mark of failure, reveals embarrassing naivete.

I’m not sure the vague statement “41 per cent of the audience were visiting the proms for the first time “ in the press realise necessarily means a “high rate of churn.” My reading is that it’s a PR gloss put on some not very scientific polling All the evidence I’ve seen over the years is that the Proms Audience is a very loyal one with a high rate of return visits .
The key stat is the increased audience .That’s one figure that can be relied on to be relatively accurate.Any classical music outlet would do anything for that plus 90 per cent sales. As a comparator I’m gong to several BSO concerts in Exeter this autumn - sales are running at barely 50 percent a couple of weeks before starting. WNO haven’t sold out in my local theatre even though the upper circle is closed for their perfs,
This years Proms season has been an artistic triumph ( I’ve listened to virtually every one ) and it seems a big hit with audiences. One of the reasons it’s done so well of course is the extraordinary level of on air marketing it’s received across BBC outlets including network news. Again that’s something other music organisations can only dream of.

[french frank]

Rossini's dictum, later also ascribed to the likes of Sachmo and the Duke, that there are only two kinds of music, good and bad.

That might make sense if only there were general agreement as to what music is 'good' and what 'bad'. And even if there were consensus, it would be a total nonsense. How can music be either 'good' or 'bad'? (Even a bad apple will have bits that are edible, not to mention the curate's egg).

As for the aims of the original Proms, they didn't if my study of the early concerts was thorough enough, include Proms made up entirely of non-classical/'popular' music. Nor in those days was there such a plethora of music festivals, the vast majority of which exclude all trace of classical music.

If there is any 'strategy' behind Proms programming, I'd dearly love to know what it is; otherwise how does one convince them the strategy is wrong? . But then, they don't want anyone to convince them it's wrong. They're so sincere!

[Serial_Apologist]

One of the reasons it’s done so well of course is the extraordinary level of on air marketing it’s received across BBC outlets including network news. Again that’s something other music organisations can only dream of.

Or something that discerning music lovers can only have nightmares over.

[DracoM]

Yup!! Spot on!

[smittims]

The approach instituted by Henry Wood has often been misunderstood. It was to create an audience for classical and modern music. Wood felt obliged at first to include lighter items (but light clasical, not 'music hall songs' as has been falsely asserted) but he never concealed his dislike of them and gradually excluded them. Saying there are only two kinds of music, good and bad, is like saying there are only to kinds if people good and bad: a little too simplistic for practical purposes. I've always found there to be lots of different kinds of music, and people.

[Master Jacques]

The approach instituted by Henry Wood has often been misunderstood. It was to create an audience for classical and modern music. Wood felt obliged at first to include lighter items (but light clasical, not 'music hall songs' as has been falsely asserted) but he never concealed his dislike of them and gradually excluded them. Saying there are only two kinds of music, good and bad, is like saying there are only to kinds if people good and bad: a little too simplistic for practical purposes. I've always found there to be lots of different kinds of music, and people.

Although I agree with much of this, smittims, I counsel wariness - as usual! - when it comes to looking at early Prom programmes from the point of view of perceived genres such as "light classical". The parlour songs, French and Viennese waltzes and stage items from G&S and their successors which Wood included were the middle-class popular music of the time. Even Massenet was considered infra dig and vulgar. Only with the passing of time have these commercial productions been drawn into the "classical canon", as American-Anglo pop music has moved ever further away from art music in its vocal production, as well as instrumental, harmonic and rhythmic techniques. Where there was once a continuum, there is now a divide.

Wood's other aim, of course, was to create an international showcase for British music, another project which - despite the red, blue and white wristbands of 2023's last night - now goes ignored by unambitious programmers. Putting on sure-fire hall fillers (of whatever musical stripe) is not what Wood was about. A look at his typical (very long) programmes shows an ambitious mix of popular and adventurous which seems inconceivable today.

[oddoneout]

The approach instituted by Henry Wood has often been misunderstood. It was to create an audience for classical and modern music. Wood felt obliged at first to include lighter items (but light clasical, not 'music hall songs' as has been falsely asserted) but he never concealed his dislike of them and gradually excluded them. Saying there are only two kinds of music, good and bad, is like saying there are only to kinds if people good and bad: a little too simplistic for practical purposes. I've always found there to be lots of different kinds of music, and people.

Even when not misunderstood, the approach has to be seen in context. The music world was very different in his time in all sorts of ways, and I for one think it is pointless to talk as if we can know what his views would be now. The best we can do is informed guess, as far as I can see. He set in train something which is still valued, but which by its very nature is subject to change, and also inevitably the focus of strong and opposing views. It's when strong opinions aren't arouse that perhaps we should worry? Indifference and apathy don't make for thriving artistic endeavour.

I don't subscribe to the good/bad music simplification - it raises too may questions that boil down to "who says which is which - and why?" I take the view that music is out there(thank goodness) - make of it what you will. I like some and don't like others, and then there is the music I don't know about/ haven't heard, which is the majority of what exists in total, a thought which puts my opinions in context.

[smittims]

Quite so, context is all. And when Wood put on a Beethoven or a Wagner Night it was the only chance most of his audience had to hear that music, unless they played the piano. There was no Radio 3 , let alone a BBC Sounds App then.

[jonfan]

Even when not misunderstood, the approach has to be seen in context. The music world was very different in his time in all sorts of ways, and I for one think it is pointless to talk as if we can know what his views would be now. The best we can do is informed guess, as far as I can see. He set in train something which is still valued, but which by its very nature is subject to change, and also inevitably the focus of strong and opposing views. It's when strong opinions aren't arouse that perhaps we should worry? Indifference and apathy don't make for thriving artistic endeavour.

I don't subscribe to the good/bad music simplification - it raises too may questions that boil down to "who says which is which - and why?" I take the view that music is out there(thank goodness) - make of it what you will. I like some and don't like others, and then there is the music I don't know about/ haven't heard, which is the majority of what exists in total, a thought which puts my opinions in context.

Bravo, spot on. Wonderful the audiences have been so good in the hall and what amazing sound engineering capturing the consistent high quality performances. Here's to a vintage year ahd thank you to everybody involved;.

[alywin]

It would also be nothing to brag about, if by some fluke it was statistically sound: if only 53% of your audience are return visitors to the Proms, it doesn't say much for your ability to build a loyal customer base.

This is precisely my point - and one I've made multiple times in relation to the Royal Opera House, which pats itself on the back for getting however much percentage (but I think it's around the 50% mark) of first-time attendees. It may tick Arts Council boxes very nicely, but, given that they have a pretty loyal audience in general, why is the ROH failing to convert these first-timers into repeat attendees? Fortunately, the RAH and the BBC aren't constrained by Arts Council box-ticking, though, so probably have it rather easier in that respect.

[bluestateprommer]

Hopefully Ed won't mind the standard bsp thread hijack here, with the announcement that David Pickard will be stepping down as Proms Director after next summer's season:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2023/bbc-proms-david-pickard-to-step-down

Haven't the faintest idea who might be a suitable replacement for him, or whom Sam Jackson might have in mind.

[Pulcinella]

A supposedly shareable link

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/74469b7c-89fe-11ee-b411-d7778fd6fa75?shareToken=a8bd2817743d63e490ef2bca572099ac

[french frank]

Interesting to read both announcements, from The Times and the BBC. With his ninth season already in the bag, Pickard's is not the shortest tenure: RW did seven (probably with an eighth planned), followed by a suspiciously sudden departure. Drummond did 9/10.