L’Enfer, c’est les autres

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've certainly been tempted (not only in a quiet carriage) to leave my seat and move down the aisle to a mobile phone user and start up my own imaginary conversation in very loud tones nearby.
Hello. Yes, I'm on the train.
Sorry, can you say that again? There's someone talking and I didn't quite hear you.
....

On a long train ride to Leeds . Lady in front on a half hour plus loud phone call revealing as usual all sorts of personal details .
Me “ I don’t suppose you could move to the corridor to make the phone call please .”
Lady (to caller ) - “Sorry I can’t hear you as there’s a very rude man telling me to move . “
I moved obviously.
I did once go up to a lawyer making a loud very interesting business call about a client’s court case and tell him I was a journalist (as I was then ) - amazingly he hung up. Lost count of the number of times I’ve seen people going through confidential papers - even MOD ones marked restricted, Its literally incredible.
The highlight was an ultra famous theatrical producer on the phone telling X in no uncertain terms that Y wasn’t going to be cast in a West End musical.

[french frank]

Having read the most recent posts, I'll admit I deleted the final sentence of my 10.32 post to Master J. I was going to add: "Is this the final degradation of human beings before they pass into extinction? " But then I could see it reproduced (probably in a Guardian Comment is Free as the archetype of a Proms-goer c. 1962, snob, elitist, whingeing old guard, gatekeeper of high culture &c &c . Discretion being the better part of valour, I deleted it instead.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Having read the most recent posts, I'll admit I deleted the final sentence of my 10.32 post to Master J. I was going to add: "Is this the final degradation of human beings before they pass into extinction? " But then I could see it reproduced (probably in a Guardian Comment is Free as the archetype of a Proms-goer c. 1962, snob, elitist, whingeing old guard, gatekeeper of high culture &c &c . Discretion being the better part of valour, I deleted it instead.

In fact the Guardian has been running several threads on bad behaviour at cinemas and concerts. Some of the cinema examples almost beggar belief. And there are hundreds of them …

[french frank]

In fact the Guardian has been running several threads on bad behaviour at cinemas and concerts. Some of the cinema examples almost beggar belief. And there are hundreds of them …

I've read a few in various sources, it also infects theatres. So now it's a case of "What constitutes bad behaviour? And where is it unacceptable?"

[Simon B]

A disturbing aspect of this general degradation in conduct (it's by no means principally popcorn centric!) is that it's contagious and precipitates a general downward spiral.

I'd have no problem engaging someone in a forthright exchange of views if they tried throwing the execrable "elitism/snobbery" trope around in response to my view that it's like someone has put evolution into reverse. I'm about as much part of some mystical "elite" as something you trod in.

The contagion is afflicting me to the point of reaching my "I'm as mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it any more" moment. If people are going to exhibit such flagrant selfish disregard for anyone around them I'm struggling to see why I should restrain myself from telling them in the crudest terms to shut the up and sit the still or hand over the £100+ this experience they're needlessly destroying has cost me, never mind my time. It'll then come down to who is bigger, uglier and more furious which in most cases is going to be me at present. Regression to the law of the jungle seems to be in progress so why not?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've read a few in various sources, it also infects theatres. So now it's a case of "What constitutes bad behaviour? And where is it unacceptable?"

Well in the case of the Guardian cinema comments page - the upper level includes vomiting , sexual intercourse , sexual harassment and , at a children’s matinee no less , throwing cans at the screen until they pierce it .

[Serial_Apologist]

A huge cultural change has taken place since the general mores of my childhood secured the reputation of the British as "a reserved people". When I was little my mum would always chide me with "Shh, the whole world does not want to know all our business" and as a consequence I would speak in a low voice or whisper, as did most people in public. True the atmosphere on trains is generally unchanged, eyes averted and backs turned at every opportunity, and any attempt at friendliness clearly shunned; and there were always rowdy parties, market places, sports matches, and pubs at closing time on Fridays and Saturdays. But not in restaurants, where one went with friends or partners for peace and quiet intimacy, or libraries, or shops. At some point the collectively repressed subconscious was unleashed, and what came out was not what might have been expected of our once polite, gently ribbed by strangers society.

[kernelbogey]

I've certainly been tempted (not only in a quiet carriage) to leave my seat and move down the aisle to a mobile phone user and start up my own imaginary conversation in very loud tones nearby.
Hello. Yes, I'm on the train.
Sorry, can you say that again? There's someone talking and I didn't quite hear you.
....

My fantasy quiet carriage remark is 'This train has ten carriages of which two are 'Quiet carriages'. You've chosen to sit in a Quiet Carriage and make your phone call, despite the notice immediately above your head asking passengers not to do this.... Could you please move to one of the other eight?' I'm resigned to such demands in nonQuiet carriages being totally unrealistic. <Saint Sebastian emoji>

[Old Grumpy]

This is seared on my memory: At the very last concert at Sage Gateshead before lockdown in 2020, a solo recital by Gabriela Montero - in characteristic style she gave to hushed silence, one of her improvised encores, which, as she explained, would only exist "in the moment'...



...except it wouldn't, the whole effect was ruined (for me anyway) by some idiot a few rows in front who video recorded the whole encore on their raised mobile phone

[smittims]

I agree wholly with S-A here; I've often had similar thoughts. Did it start with the so-called Thatcher years, the decade when the amount of money you were making was the only index of human value? It seems a lot of the perpetrartors are people who were born or grew up in the 1980s.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree wholly with S-A here; I've often had similar thoughts. Did it start with the so-called Thatcher years, the decade when the amount of money you were making was the only index of human value? It seems a lot of the perpetrartors are people who were born or grew up in the 1980s.

No there was plenty of really really bad behaviour in the seventies - people are much better behaved now in general .The second Who concert at Charlton (76) had by far the worst violence I’ve ever experienced at any public event . You took a risk going to any football match in South East London esp Millwall and not just the matches - even travelling by rail in London on a Sat afternoon was risky . Went through New Cross once and Millwall fans on the platform greeted the train with a shower of stones.
Not just football either - went to Wimbledon in ‘81 (2 years into Thatch admittedly ) and heard Martina Navratilova subjected to loud homophobic abuse throughout by two drunk posh boys. Went to Lords in 1978 and heard loud racist abuse directed at a West Indies player by two MCC members no less - luckily for them he didn’t hear it . In many ways things are a lot better these days.
The big change is that very few people ate in public in those days (after from fish and chips ) - Now it’s constant grazing everywhere . The other big difference- very tight licensing laws and an absolute ban on taking drinks into theatres and cinemas.

[Old Grumpy]

L'Enfer ces't les autres et leurs chiens


Excuse me, but when did it become acceptable to take a dog into a food shop or restaurant? There'll be dogs in theatres or RAH next!*




* Oops, shouldn't have said that!

[mopsus]

L'Enfer ces't les autres et leurs chiens

Excuse me, but when did it become acceptable to take a dog into a food shop or restaurant? There'll be dogs in theatres or RAH next!*

* Oops, shouldn't have said that!

In many places people are now frightened that their dog will be 'abducted' if they tie it up outside the shop. How realistic such fears are is not clear as there are more rumours about dog thefts than substantiated cases.

If I hear a conversation going on in a place where it clearly shouldn't, I sometimes join in, which usually has the desired effect of shutting the others up or making them continue somewhere more private.

[PhilipT]

L'Enfer ces't les autres et leurs chiens


Excuse me, but when did it become acceptable to take a dog into a food shop or restaurant? There'll be dogs in theatres or RAH next!*




* Oops, shouldn't have said that!

Unless the rules have changed recently, people with guide dogs can have them with them at the RAH if they have a seat in a box. In other cases, the Stewards will look after a guide dog during the performance. This is a popular duty among the Stewards (presumably because the dogs are better behaved than some people). This link may be helpful: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b092jw1p

[oddoneout]

L'Enfer ces't les autres et leurs chiens


Excuse me, but when did it become acceptable to take a dog into a food shop or restaurant? There'll be dogs in theatres or RAH next!*




* Oops, shouldn't have said that!

It's never been forbidden to take a dog into a restaurant and as far as I know that also applies to food shops but there are rules about keeping them out of food prep areas. It is up to the discretion of the owner/retailer. Businesses see an advantage in allowing dogs into their premises and pro-dog marketing is the norm as a result. If, like me, you don't like dogs or are allergic to doghair tough, although fortunately I don't eat out and rarely go to places where dogs are present. They are not allowed on site where I work(although visitors try and plead/sneak them in) except if assistance dogs - and there are some strange(as in questionable) versions of those it has to be said but we can't get into arguments about what someone claims, but it can create difficulties with other visitors.
Guide dogs and other assistance dogs have greater access freedoms as they are effectively included in the Equality Act provisions.