Prom 31: Poulenc’s Dialogues of the Carmelites - 7 August 2023

[Pulcinella]

She did not have a pronounced vibrato at the premier performance at Glyndebourne, so it could have developed over the run and/or through compensating for the larger space to fill at the RAH. I read somewhere that Poulenc approved of the work being performed in the vernacular, which for such a dialogue driven work seems entirely sensible. I thought the orchestra was the star of the show at Glyndebourne and was surprised on listening last night how Ticciati had managed to retain the whip-crack incisiveness of the attack and swooning harmonies without sounding soupy.

(I was at Glyndebourne on Friday where Ticciati and the LPO gave a stunning rendition of the evergreen Hockney production of the The Rake’s Progress. The strings had a burnished warmth and the woodwinds that characteristic Stravinskian tartness - as fine a rendition, and as swift, as Stravinsky’s own recording. But everyone was upstaged by David Hockney, who took a bow at the end and received a standing ovation. He’s rather frail nowadays, but was the only person there wearing a cloth cap and Crocs.)

Off main topic, but replying to the brackets.
I can't post links any more, but Richard Morrison in yesterday's Times was less complimentary:

The instrumental timbres lack that hard-edged bite, drive and plangent clarity that neoclassical Stravinsky needs.

[Simon B]

I see I'm not the only one royally peed off with the idiocy of the RAH finding a way to outdo their previous lamentable decision to turn their venue into a giant boozer - by selling popcorn for consumption in the auditorium: https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/st...65606646583296 (A thread started by music writer Jessica Duchen on the subject, which has, by classical music standards, blown up and subsequently been picked up by Stormin' Normin' Lebrecht)

They need calling out on this, and not in the milquetoast terms that prevail among the generally over-polite core classical constituency. The people or persons responsible for this are either incredibly stupid or wilfully ignorant or both and there is no justification for tiptoeing around the issue. Politeness is inappropriate in the face of such insult.

The next time the RAH asks me for a donation or a "Restoration Levy" they can do one (to put it in far more genteel terms than I really mean).

I'm not surprised either to read that there was a borderline fight in the audience last night. I've already come within a hair's breadth of removing a mobile from someone by force and returning it to them shortly after having permanently reprogrammed it with my foot. Had they continued to insolently refuse to stop filming and texting there would have been another altercation for the security heavies to deal with. Quietly putting up with it to avoid making a scene is helping to legitimise this despicable narcissism which is degrading the experience to the point of futility. I could have had more fun for less outlay than several of the Proms I've been to this year by sitting at home setting fire to a wad of £10 notes...

[PhilipT]

It seems that the old joke about the best seat in the hall being at home is becoming truer than ever for the Proms...

I beg to differ. Having seen the production at Glyndebourne, and been in the Hall last night, I am certain that the best seat in the Hall was standing in the front row. Even with a wider-than-usual trench between us and the platform - something I shall put down to Robin Ticciati not wanting to be too close to the audience in case of a repeat of the Just Stop Oil protest at Glyndebourne - being that close to the performers made the whole thing much more involving. The last act particularly was a powerful and moving experience.

I feel compelled to put in a good word for the Hall management, who after the contretemps the previous night were taking no chances and actually had two Stewards on duty in the Arena before the queue was admitted. They seemed to have learned from experience, for once.

[Simon B]

I am certain that the best seat in the Hall was standing in the front row.

Fair enough, but that is only possible for rather less than 1% of the audience and comes with the intrinsic advantage of it being impossible for anyone to be messing about in front of you. For everyone else, it is a lottery and one in which the odds have shifted considerably for the worse.

FWIW having stood on the front row occasionally in the past, while it is clearly a matter of personal taste, that is too close for mine, particularly where singers are concerned. Close up is good, say just in front of where the fountain used to go back in the day, but not that close. To me, that is a similar experience to actually playing in an orchestra where the woodwind and brass are a few feet away and all the breath and embouchure buzz and key clicking sounds are audible and things have not had a chance to blend.

I'm glad you enjoyed it though (not meant at all sarcastically!) as it was clearly a mostly terrific performance.

[Master Jacques]

She did not have a pronounced vibrato at the premier performance at Glyndebourne, so it could have developed over the run and/or through compensating for the larger space to fill at the RAH. I read somewhere that Poulenc approved of the work being performed in the vernacular, which for such a dialogue driven work seems entirely sensible. I thought the orchestra was the star of the show at Glyndebourne and was surprised on listening last night how Ticciati had managed to retain the whip-crack incisiveness of the attack and swooning harmonies without sounding soupy.

Ticciati did a splendid job: the Times reviewer needs to remember that this is not neo-classical Stravinsky, but neo-Stravinskian Poulenc, who needs a different sonic approach. As for Sally Matthews, it's not vibrato which is the trouble for me, so much as her occluded sound and sub-optimal breath control, which produce a sort of spasmodic diva-like richness of tone at the expense of verbal communication. Her Glyndebourne Rusalka suffered from the same problems, and her popularity with the management there - and, admittedly, audiences too - eludes me. I understand Danielle de Niese was due to sing Blanche at Glyndebourne, and that Matthews was a late replacement. Perhaps she's seen as a "safe pair of hands".

I'm glad you note (quite rightly) that Poulenc only wanted his Dialogues heard in the vernacular of which ever country it was being seen. In that, he was no different from Wagner, Verdi, Puccini, Janacek - or any 19th and 20th century composers fit to mention! Doing it in French in London seems mere snobbery ... but we've had this debate before, so I'll stop there!

[Pulcinella]

Ticciati did a splendid job: the Times reviewer needs to remember that this is not neo-classical Stravinsky, but neo-Stravinskian Poulenc, who needs a different sonic approach. As for Sally Matthews, it's not vibrato which is the trouble for me, so much as her occluded sound and sub-optimal breath control, which produce a sort of spasmodic diva-like richness of tone at the expense of verbal communication. Her Glyndebourne Rusalka suffered from the same problems, and her popularity with the management there - and, admittedly, audiences too - eludes me. I understand Danielle de Niese was due to sing Blanche at Glyndebourne, and that Matthews was a late replacement. Perhaps she's seen as a "safe pair of hands".

I'm glad you note (quite rightly) that Poulenc only wanted his Dialogues heard in the vernacular of which ever country it was being seen. In that, he was no different from Wagner, Verdi, Puccini, Janacek - or any 19th and 20th century composers fit to mention! Doing it in French in London seems mere snobbery ... but we've had this debate before, so I'll stop there!

Apologies for any confusion (but that's why I said I was off-topic and responding to the bracketed comment): it was Richard Morrison's review of The Rake that I was quoting from.

[Master Jacques]

Apologies for any confusion (but that's why I said I was off-topic and responding to the bracketed comment): it was Richard Morrison's review of The Rake that I was quoting from.

My apologies, Pulcinella, to you and Richard Morrison, for assuming Poulenc was being talked about.

[Master Jacques]

I feel compelled to put in a good word for the Hall management, who after the contretemps the previous night were taking no chances and actually had two Stewards on duty in the Arena before the queue was admitted. They seemed to have learned from experience, for once.

The way this thing is spiralling, they may soon be coping with JUST STOP POPCORN protesters, spraying the stuff around the stage with abandon!

[PhilipT]

The way this thing is spiralling, they may soon be coping with JUST STOP POPCORN protesters, spraying the stuff around the stage with abandon!

For the avoidance of doubt, I should say that the problem on Sunday evening was caused by an attempt to jump the queue. By means that I shall not, for reasons that should be obvious, disclose. It's not the first time it's been tried, but RAH management have short memories. I'm happy to say that so far this season I have not been afflicted by popcorn.

[Pulcinella]

My apologies, Pulcinella, to you and Richard Morrison, for assuming Poulenc was being talked about.

No problem! I wasn't very clear in my message.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Ticciati did a splendid job: the Times reviewer needs to remember that this is not neo-classical Stravinsky, but neo-Stravinskian Poulenc, who needs a different sonic approach. As for Sally Matthews, it's not vibrato which is the trouble for me, so much as her occluded sound and sub-optimal breath control, which produce a sort of spasmodic diva-like richness of tone at the expense of verbal communication. Her Glyndebourne Rusalka suffered from the same problems, and her popularity with the management there - and, admittedly, audiences too - eludes me. I understand Danielle de Niese was due to sing Blanche at Glyndebourne, and that Matthews was a late replacement. Perhaps she's seen as a "safe pair of hands".

I'm glad you note (quite rightly) that Poulenc only wanted his Dialogues heard in the vernacular of which ever country it was being seen. In that, he was no different from Wagner, Verdi, Puccini, Janacek - or any 19th and 20th century composers fit to mention! Doing it in French in London seems mere snobbery ... but we've had this debate before, so I'll stop there!

Dropping this production for Aspects of Love, as well as being a strange musical choice , also strikes me as a poor career decision.

[Master Jacques]

Dropping this production for Aspects of Love, as well as being a strange musical choice , also strikes me as a poor career decision.

But a very remunerative one, no doubt.

https://www.tatler.com/article/danielle-de-niese-aspects-of-love

An article which explains all, and (ungallantly) gives the (irrelevant) ages of both De Niese and Matthews.

[Maclintick]

I'm happy to say that so far this season I have not been afflicted by popcorn.

Nor me. I must be suffering from some insidious variety of perceptual bypass as I've not witnessed the lager-loutish behaviour commented on by fellow-forumites at any of the Proms I've attended this season, including last night's heart-wrenchingly magnificent Dialogues des Carmélites and the previous Friday's Rach Pag/Belshazzar's Feast. Both stunning concerts, by any standards, and ones in which the Proms tradition of hushed concentration at special moments, such as Yuja's intimately poised introduction of RachPag Var.18 on Fri, or last night's scene in which the fearful Constance muses on death, was palpable.

To return to the vexed question of popcorn, at a weekend screening of Oppenheimer we found ourselves in close proximity to a couple of young chaps who had adorned their laps with what could best be described as cardboard skips of the tooth-rotting comestible, sufficient to last for 3 days in our estimation, rather than the 3 hours of the film. Fears that their enthusiastic mastication would be distracting proved groundless, however, as the whopping decibel levels in the cinema masked any extraneous noise. Pleasingly, the silently attentive young audience -- we were by several decades the oldest couple present -- maintained rapt concentration throughout.

[Ein Heldenleben]

But a very remunerative one, no doubt.

https://www.tatler.com/article/danielle-de-niese-aspects-of-love

An article which explains all, and (ungallantly) gives the (irrelevant) ages of both De Niese and Matthews.

Do you think it was about money? She is married to a very rich man and must have considerable personal wealth of her own. It baffles me . Aspects is one of A L-W’s thinnest works . It was obvious from the paper planning stage that this Dialogue was going to be special . I wonder whether there was an artistic reason e.g. she didn’t like the role of Blanche ? The Aspects production was a bit of a flop wasn’t it ?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Nor me. I must be suffering from some insidious variety of perceptual bypass as I've not witnessed the lager-loutish behaviour commented on by fellow-forumites at any of the Proms I've attended this season, including last night's heart-wrenchingly magnificent Dialogues des Carmélites and the previous Friday's Rach Pag/Belshazzar's Feast. Both stunning concerts, by any standards, and ones in which the Proms tradition of hushed concentration at special moments, such as Yuja's intimately poised introduction of RachPag Var.18 on Fri, or last night's scene in which the fearful Constance muses on death, was palpable.

To return to the vexed question of popcorn, at a weekend screening of Oppenheimer we found ourselves in close proximity to a couple of young chaps who had adorned their laps with what could best be described as cardboard skips of the tooth-rotting comestible, sufficient to last for 3 days in our estimation, rather than the 3 hours of the film. Fears that their enthusiastic mastication would be distracting proved groundless, however, as the whopping decibel levels in the cinema masked any extraneous noise. Pleasingly, the silently attentive young audience -- we were by several decades the oldest couple present -- maintained rapt concentration throughout.

Many have commented to me on how loud Oppenheimer is. One reason I won’t be going as I could do without aggravating my tinnitus. My wife managed to get the sound turned down at Barbie recently- something of a triumph.