Prom 57: 'Fantasy, Myths and Legends', BBC CO, Helsing, Monday 28 August 2023

[Master Jacques]

The Dark materials theme music is a good example of why this music is put into the classical music category by record producers and the marketing machine . It’s orchestral, even has a choir and consists of a five note mirror theme repeated four times - one that ends where it begins and each phrase echoes the other (boringly) . Haven’t worked out the chords but they are the sort of very simple chord progression that would have been familiar to Monteverdi. It’s also based on a Scotch snap rhythm - a folk thing really but used by classical composers from Beethoven (? ) on.
Despite all that it’s quite incredibly irritating to listen to - partly because it’s uninterestingly repetitive and the orchestral texture is so overblown. Like being “hit in the face with a sock full of wet sand “in the immortal words of Jack Brymer on Ravel’s Bolero.

I guess the other reason these works come into the classical category (in the view of record execs) is that they often don’t have much in the way of blues, scales tonality or chords. They are usually very tonic / sub dominant/ dominant in chord use - so was Beethoven I guess but he did a lot of other things as well,
PS I think John Williams is a very good film composer . Less keen on his classical stuff which is highly serial IIRC.
Debbie Wiseman ? - good luck to her earning more per month than Mozart did in a lifetime.

Your amusing description of the Dark Materials "Suite" pinpoints perfectly its parasitic nature. There is (almost literally) no substance, and no individuality. Instead, there's a bogus sense that this is what "film music" requires. We have only to listen to great cinema scores by the diverse likes of Morricone, Prokofiev, Walton or Bax to see that this is baling out of artistic responsibility. John Williams is to film music, what Andrew Lloyd Webber is to the musical: living proof that commercial success does not equate to quality, so much as journeyman technique and magpie morality.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This was my source!

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...29/popandrock1

I thought Charlie Gillett’s name would turn up sooner or later. He had a hugely influential show on BBC london for decades and I think was on Radio 3 for a spell. Seems like a different era. Robin was a Newsnight reporter who specialised in music and Africa pieces. It all seems a world away sadly.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Your amusing description of the Dark Materials "Suite" pinpoints perfectly its parasitic nature. There is (almost literally) no substance, and no individuality. Instead, there's a bogus sense that this is what "film music" requires. We have only to listen to great cinema scores by the diverse likes of Morricone, Prokofiev, Walton or Bax to see that this is baling out of artistic responsibility. John Williams is to film music, what Andrew Lloyd Webber is to the musical: living proof that commercial success does not equate to quality, so much as journeyman technique and magpie morality.

They could start by trying to write melodies that are more than two or four bar phrases, employ more than four chords repeated ad nauseam and stop being so rhythmically humdrum. Something that all the quality names you mention avoid. I honestly think some ( not John Williams ) have three or four chords preprogrammed into the computer and then improv a tune over the top.

[french frank]

I thought Charlie Gillett’s name would turn up sooner or later. He had a hugely influential show on BBC london for decades and I think was on Radio 3 for a spell. Seems like a different era. Robin was a Newsnight reporter who specialised in music and Africa pieces. It all seems a world away sadly.

I suspect the (earlier) academic 'world music' guy was objectively interested in a musical classification where the British groupwho came up with the same label were primarily concerned with marketing. I gather they were a bit embarrassed about that article later.

How this relates to film music or a themed Prom of this kind I'm not sure.

[bluestateprommer]

No comments on this? It seems an actress who was supposed to be hosting it dropped out in solidarity with an actors' strike and was replaced by Katie Derham.

As I didn't hear it I can't contribute anything - but it was probably hugely enjoyed by those who were there. On the whole, I wish they wouldn't add a few token classical pieces to these non classical concerts.

Being in Proms "compleatist" mode (as I tend to be), I did give this 'crossover' Prom a listen. I agree with the general assessment of the weakness of the contemporary selections compared to Falla, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, and Grieg, along with John Williams, the veteran among the composers of our time. I will make a modest exception, however, for David Arnold's "Good Omens", which was the best of the rest, IMVHO.

I would perhaps regard ff's concern about the inclusion of more standard classical repertoire in this concert more from the opposite side of the coin. That is to say: with the fantasy fans getting a chance to hear music from their favorite shows and games in three dimensions rather than through a home stereo system (however good), it's as if to indicate to the fantasy fans:

"OK, here's music from your favorite games and shows, but if you want to hear some really good music, try these other pieces, which is where the gamer composers got their influences from."

In other words, the gamer and fantasy crowd comes to classical repertoire from the exact opposite direction from the old hands / core classical audience. The seeds are planted with a potential new audience. The seeds may not sprout, but at least they're planted.

The BBC CO and the Huddersfield Choral Society did a good job. This concert, along with the Great Yarmouth Prom, also served as a quiet, soft-launch introduction of Anna-Maria Helsing as the BBC CO's new chief conductor, as a side benefit.