Prom 57: 'Fantasy, Myths and Legends', BBC CO, Helsing, Monday 28 August 2023

[bluestateprommer]

Monday 28 August 2023
19:00
Royal Albert Hall

Howard Shore: Lord of the Rings Symphonic Suite – Fellowship of The Ring
Ramin Djawadi: Game of Thrones Suite
de Falla: El Amor Brujo (excerpts)
David Arnold: "Good Omens"
John Williams: Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone - "Hedwig’s Theme"
Stravinsky: The Firebird (1919 suite) - "Berceuse" and "Finale"

interval

Mussorgsky (arr. Rimsky-Korsakov): A Night on the Bare Mountain
Lorne Balfe: His Dark Materials - Suite (BBC commission – world premiere)
Joe Hisaishi and Youmi Kimura: "My Neighbour Totoro"
Eimear Noone: World of Warcraft - "Malach, Angel Messenger"
Grieg: Peer Gynt - "In the Hall of the Mountain King"
John Williams: Star Wars - "Duel of the Fates"

Felicity Buckland, mezzo-soprano (Proms debut artist)
BBC Concert Orchestra
Huddersfield Choral Society
Anna-Maria Helsing, conductor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/evwj6q

https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/proms/bbc-proms-2023/prom-57-fantasy-myths-and-legends/

[french frank]

No comments on this? It seems an actress who was supposed to be hosting it dropped out in solidarity with an actors' strike and was replaced by Katie Derham.

As I didn't hear it I can't contribute anything - but it was probably hugely enjoyed by those who were there. On the whole, I wish they wouldn't add a few token classical pieces to these non classical concerts.

[jonfan]

I’m waiting until the tv version, I think this weekend. According to a friend in the Huddersfield Choral they were only asked to take part about a month ago as another group backed out I understand.

[oddoneout]

I wish they wouldn't add a few token classical pieces to these non classical concerts.

Were they token though? I'm not into films but I am pretty certain Firebird has been used, and I assume that to be the case for the others, but happy to be corrected.

[french frank]

Were they token though? I'm not into films but I am pretty certain Firebird has been used, and I assume that to be the case for the others, but happy to be corrected.

Yes, I think they all fit the theme well enough. It's just the somewhat obvious way they add classical pieces to legitimise performing so much non classical - like playing the Moonlight Sonata in Piano Flow or Mozart's Trauermusik in Happy Harmonies.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, I think they all fit the theme well enough. It's just the somewhat obvious way they add classical pieces to legitimise performing so much non classical - like playing the Moonlight Sonata in Piano Flow or Mozart's Trauermusik in Happy Harmonies.

That’s a bit harsh. Film music by the likes of John Williams, Debbie Wiseman and many others, is basically classical music, unlike the main content of the Saturday morning rubbish.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Were they token though? I'm not into films but I am pretty certain Firebird has been used, and I assume that to be the case for the others, but happy to be corrected.

Was Firebird in there because it is a legendary story (noting title of concert ) and the score has also been cited by John Williams as an influence ?

[french frank]

Film music by the likes of John Williams, Debbie Wiseman and many others, is basically classical music, unlike the main content of the Saturday morning rubbish.

That depends how you define basically classical music. The meaning has been stretched from the 'strictly classical' (Haydn, Mozart &c) to include earlier music (Baroque, Renaissance) and later music stretching into the 20th/21st century. There is no reason why film music should not be included within a 'classical' canon but it hasn't been until now other than by the pioneering Classic FM.

So what qualifies as 'classical music'? It seems to me that chronology is an important factor and certain film music will inevitably pass into that category when viewed from a different time perspective (as Tchaikovsky or Shostakovich have become 'classical'). But if one is already including eg John Williams and Debbie Wiseman (and who's to say one shouldn't?), then I'm not sure what classical music is. My problem, one might say!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My surprise was that the music from “His Dark Materials” was included. I followed every series of this, but in every episode l was staggered by the weakness of the title music. I reminded me was the worst kind of jingle one is forced to listen to when in a phone call queue. The suite did nothing to persuade me otherwise.

[Bryn]

My surprise was that the music from “His Dark Materials” was included. I followed every series of this, but in every episode l was staggered by the weakness of the title music. I reminded me was the worst kind of jingle one is forced to listen to when in a phone call queue. The suite did nothing to persuade me otherwise.

I. too. watched all episodes of the television adaptation of His Dark Materials but the music quite passed me by, which suggests to me that it did its job very well by not undermining the visual and verbal content, but supporting it.

[Master Jacques]

That depends how you define basically classical music. The meaning has been stretched from the 'strictly classical' (Haydn, Mozart &c) to include earlier music (Baroque, Renaissance) and later music stretching into the 20th/21st century. There is no reason why film music should not be included within a 'classical' canon but it hasn't been until now other than by the pioneering Classic FM.

So what qualifies as 'classical music'? It seems to me that chronology is an important factor and certain film music will inevitably pass into that category when viewed from a different time perspective (as Tchaikovsky or Shostakovich have become 'classical'). But if one is already including eg John Williams and Debbie Wiseman (and who's to say one shouldn't?), then I'm not sure what classical music is. My problem, one might say!

You hit the root of the problem, caused by stretching a too-broad generic term beyond any point where it can have any worthwhile function. For film fans globally "classical" now means any orchestral sound track which is not drums and guitar based and dares to go beyond a constant 4/4 thumping rhythm. It describes a tonal palette, not a compositional style. And it is, of course, utterly meaningless. "Orchestral" might be better, but of course means more troublesome recategorisation for awkward things such as string quartets or solo instrumental tracks which are also considered "classical".

As for labelling such parasitical dross as the film scores of John Williams or Debbie Wiseman "classical", in order to raise them into a qualitative pantheon in which they look silly ... well, in my opinion this marketing tool reflects the inverse snobbery which is killing art music. Handing public money to a commercial composer, to make a "suite" out of his already anodyne film score, shows how far we've fallen.

[Ein Heldenleben]

You hit the root of the problem, caused by stretching a too-broad generic term beyond any point where it can have any worthwhile function. For film fans globally "classical" now means any orchestral sound track which is not drums and guitar based and dares to go beyond a constant 4/4 thumping rhythm. It describes a tonal palette, not a compositional style. And it is, of course, utterly meaningless. "Orchestral" might be better, but of course means more troublesome recategorisation for awkward things such as string quartets or solo instrumental tracks which are also considered "classical".

As for labelling such parasitical dross as the film scores of John Williams or Debbie Wiseman "classical", in order to raise them into a qualitative pantheon in which they look silly ... well, in my opinion this marketing tool reflects the inverse snobbery which is killing art music. Handing public money to a commercial composer, to make a "suite" out of his already anodyne film score, shows how far we've fallen.

The Dark materials theme music is a good example of why this music is put into the classical music category by record producers and the marketing machine . It’s orchestral, even has a choir and consists of a five note mirror theme repeated four times - one that ends where it begins and each phrase echoes the other (boringly) . Haven’t worked out the chords but they are the sort of very simple chord progression that would have been familiar to Monteverdi. It’s also based on a Scotch snap rhythm - a folk thing really but used by classical composers from Beethoven (? ) on.
Despite all that it’s quite incredibly irritating to listen to - partly because it’s uninterestingly repetitive and the orchestral texture is so overblown. Like being “hit in the face with a sock full of wet sand “in the immortal words of Jack Brymer on Ravel’s Bolero.

I guess the other reason these works come into the classical category (in the view of record execs) is that they often don’t have much in the way of blues, scales tonality or chords. They are usually very tonic / sub dominant/ dominant in chord use - so was Beethoven I guess but he did a lot of other things as well,
PS I think John Williams is a very good film composer . Less keen on his classical stuff which is highly serial IIRC.
Debbie Wiseman ? - good luck to her earning more per month than Mozart did in a lifetime.

[french frank]

The Dark materials theme music is a good example of why this music is put into the classical music category by record producers and the marketing machine .

The importance of 'the market' is a characteristic of our age. 'World music' as a category was invented by those who had an interest in offering a new 'product' to the public: where/how can people locate it in a record store? At that point 'World Music' becomes what the recording industry includes under that heading and places in the world music section. And 'classical music' becomes what is sold in the classical music section. I would be less dismissive than Master Jacques but only because I'm unfamiliar with film music so don't really have an opinion. It was a theoretical suggestion that as it aged it would become 'classical', but it appears it already has: which is what I was challenging.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The importance of 'the market' is a characteristic of our age. 'World music' as a category was invented by those who had an interest in offering a new 'product' to the public: where/how can people locate it in a record store? At that point 'World Music' becomes what the recording industry includes under that heading and places in the world music section. And 'classical music' becomes what is sold in the classical music section. I would be less dismissive than Master Jacques but only because I'm unfamiliar with film music so don't really have an opinion. It was a theoretical suggestion that as it aged it would become 'classical', but it appears it already has: which is what I was challenging.

I’d thought the term “World Music” either came from the World Of Music and Dance festival or from a record co. Turns out it was probably coined by an academic (according to Wiki)

“ The term "world music" has been credited to ethnomusicologist Robert E. Brown, who coined it in the early 1960s at Wesleyan University in Connecticut, where he developed undergraduate through doctoral programs in the discipline. To enhance the learning process (John Hill), he invited more than a dozen visiting performers from Africa and Asia and began a world music concert series.^[10][11] The term became current in the 1980s as a marketing/classificatory device in the media and the music industry.^[12]There are several conflicting definitions for world music. One is that it consists of "all the music in the world", though such a broad definition renders the term virtually meaningless.^[13][14]“

[french frank]

I’d thought the term “World Music” either came from the World Of Music and Dance festival or from a record co. Turns out it was probably coined by an academic (according to Wiki)

This was my source!

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2004/jun/29/popandrock1