Prom 56: Poulenc / Mahler, BBC Singers / LSO, Rattle, Sunday 27 August 2023

[Pulcinella]

Well never thought I'd live to see the day when a Poulenc vocal work got more Forum responses than a Mahler symphony, and not any old Mahler symphony, but the 9th to boot!
...

And ardcarp has started a separate thread on The Choir:

https://www.for3.org/forums/forum/classical-forum/the-choir/1283306-poulenc-s-figure-humaine

Here's a copy of a post I made there:

Roger Nichols, in his book on Poulenc, writes (page 163):

Nor was he [Poulenc] prepared to accept chamber choirs, suggesting initially a choir of around 200; when, for the première in London, it was suggested that sixty singers might be enough, Poulenc retorted that eighty-four would be nearer the mark, with seven singers to each part. For the Carnegie Hall première in 1950 he accepted eighty singers (with sixty rehearsals!). No doubt he was thrilled to have a performance in Belgium with 250.

The mind boggles.

[Master Jacques]

And ardcarp has started a separate thread on The Choir:

https://www.for3.org/forums/forum/classical-forum/the-choir/1283306-poulenc-s-figure-humaine

Here's a copy of a post I made there:

Roger Nichols, in his book on Poulenc, writes (page 163):

Nor was he [Poulenc] prepared to accept chamber choirs, suggesting initially a choir of around 200; when, for the première in London, it was suggested that sixty singers might be enough, Poulenc retorted that eighty-four would be nearer the mark, with seven singers to each part. For the Carnegie Hall première in 1950 he accepted eighty singers (with sixty rehearsals!). No doubt he was thrilled to have a performance in Belgium with 250.

The mind boggles.

But the composer knew why he wanted Figure humaine that way, didn't he? We've got so used to hearing pitch-perfect chamber performances of his choral pieces that we've perhaps forgotten that he was after a certain grandeur, over and above pristine, squeaky-clean sound. I vividly remember singing his Quatre motets pour un temps de pénitence when I was a treble chorister, as part of a choir of 100+, alongside some Bruckner motets. This was a marvellously effective combination, never to be forgotten; and I've personally preferred hearing his choral works done on the Brucknerian scale ever since.

Can we imagine a baroque-scale performance of the Organ Concerto? Perhaps chamber performances of Poulenc's unaccompanied choral works - neat though they are on CD - are equally off beam, though I know many of them were first performed by fairly limited forces. But that final cry, the top C on "liberté!" certainly needs a huge sound, on the edge of a scream, to do it justice.

[Maclintick]

But the composer knew why he wanted Figure humaine that way, didn't he? We've got so used to hearing pitch-perfect chamber performances of his choral pieces that we've perhaps forgotten that he was after a certain grandeur, over and above pristine, squeaky-clean sound. I vividly remember singing his Quatre motets pour un temps de pénitence when I was a treble chorister, as part of a choir of 100+, alongside some Bruckner motets. This was a marvellously effective combination, never to be forgotten; and I've personally preferred hearing his choral works done on the Brucknerian scale ever since.

Can we imagine a baroque-scale performance of the Organ Concerto? Perhaps chamber performances of Poulenc's unaccompanied choral works - neat though they are on CD - are equally off beam, though I know many of them were first performed by fairly limited forces. But that final cry, the top C on "liberté!" certainly needs a huge sound, on the edge of a scream, to do it justice.

In the nouvelle édition, 1959, that top E (not C) is marked ffff for 1 Sopr. Solo in each of the two six-part choirs. It would be interesting to know if Poulenc's first idea was to have it screamed out by all the sops...

[silvestrione]

It is notable, certainly. What this means is anyone's guess.

Having done something I essentially never do (watching the relay of a Prom I was at in person) on the Mahler I'm sticking largely with:



A few contradictions of this promise would be:

* The best is still to come if you've not yet heard the last movement
* Watching it on TV did reveal some tempo choices and imperfect ensemble that I was oblivious to on the night
* Tim Jones deserves some sort of special achievement award for absolutely magnificent, emotional horn playing, even by his standards. The whole section were extraordinary throughout.

Yes words are almost entirely superfluous, but when you end just feeling slightly stunned, and thinking 'what an extraordinary, extraordinary piece of music', you know you've heard the best kind of performance.

[jonfan]

This Mahler 9 equals, and probably surpasses, the Abbado and BPO I was fortunate to attend many years ago with about a minute of silence at the end.
Rattle and the LSO - words inadequate to express!!! Top drawer engineering to match though there’s a jangle of phone sounds at the end of movement 1 that Is inexcusable.