Prom 51: J. Weir/R. Schumann/Elgar, BBC SO, Tetzlaff/Oramo, Thurs 24 Aug 2023

[Alison]

Good post EH. Still friends. Rarely do I bring gender into my conversation but most favoured performances of late have come from the likes of Rachel Barton-Pine, Nicola Benedetti and Tasmin Little. Maybe I found an undefinable feminine quality missing tonight.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Good post EH. Still friends. Rarely do I bring gender into my conversation but most favoured performances of late have come from the likes of Rachel Barton-Pine, Nicola Benedetti and Tasmin Little. Maybe I found an undefinable feminine quality missing tonight.

Interesting . I am completely incapable of telling the gender of a violin player. I used to be able to spot female pianists but so many now have same “muscular” technique of a Horowitz or Gilels that’s now much more difficult.

[Alison]

I do hope Pastoralguy tuned in tonight.

[edashtav]

I enjoyed the cheerful, bright performance of Schumann’s 1st Symphony which contained some sparkling woodwind contributions. It was excellent planning to programme this work after Paradise and the Peri, a couple of days ago. I, for one, heard the earlier symphony in a new light.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Nice of David Owen Norris to mention that Oramo is using antiphonal 1st and 2nd violins for this concert.

An overhyped concept in my opinion. Directional acoustics are barely noticeable in the concert hall unless you are uncomfortably close to the orchestra. You may hear the effect on home hi-fi, but the natural acoustics of most concert halls cancel it out.

[smittims]

Well, as for over-emotional, Elgar himself said his concerto was 'awfully emotional, too emotional, but I love it'. Ever a master of understatement , I think he was wary of revealing too much about his platonic relationship with Alice Stuart-Wortley.

I was interested in Alpie's remark about first and second violins. I tend to agree, and I wonder if certain conductors' strong preferences for the antiphonal placing of the violins (Sir Adrian Boult in particular) stemmed from his position on the rostrum, the one place where one hears rhe difference markedly.

Yes, some works have a lot of antiphony between firsts and seconds. But other works have antiphony between violins and cellos, ad Barbirolli and Beecham both preferred the cellos to their right Herbert von Karajan sometimes (not always) had the violas on his right front, and I think that is a good arrangement in many works.

[Master Jacques]

I was interested in Alpie's remark about first and second violins. I tend to agree, and I wonder if certain conductors' strong preferences for the antiphonal placing of the violins (Sir Adrian Boult in particular) stemmed from his position on the rostrum, the one place where one hears rhe difference markedly.

I believe that Boult's preference for antiphonal violins stemmed from his understanding that most of the composers he was playing had intended their works to be presented that way. More conductors would follow his (and his pupil Tod Handley) in this, if it were not for intransigence from orchestral players. At least, that's the theory...

[Nick Armstrong]

Missed the first half but thought the Elgar was wonderful. Again a lovely string sound from the BBCSO.
What a magnificent encore.

The Guardian reviewer agrees with you:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/25/prom-51-bbcso-sakari-oramo-review-christian-tetzlaff-judith-weir-begin-again

I must say I tuned in and tuned out minutes later as the violin tone and intonation came across the airwaves unpleasantly, to my ears…

[Ein Heldenleben]

The Guardian reviewer agrees with you:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/25/prom-51-bbcso-sakari-oramo-review-christian-tetzlaff-judith-weir-begin-again

I must say I tuned in and tuned out minutes later as the violin tone and intonation came across the airwaves unpleasantly, to my ears…

Yes I noticed that but in the interests of intra-forum harmony, currently at something of a high , I decided not to draw attention to it. On the other hand what do critics know ?
You are right CT was a bit sharp in some of the final movement passage work . ‘‘Twas ever thus …

[smittims]

I thought the Elgar was well-played but not outstanding. Compared with some recent performances (i.e without harking back to a 'golden age') I found more vitality , more personality in a performance Elena Urioste gave about ten years ago,and also in Marat Bisengaliev's Naos CD

[Maclintick]

The tally runs
Elgar 34
Beethoven 107
Brahms 95
Mendelssohn 105
Tschaikovsky 81
Bruch 45

Even adding 4 perfs (15/128ths ) for the fifteen years the concerto was uncomposed that makes 38 . I would argue , given its greatness it’s underperformed. Hardly surprising as it long, difficult and musically very demanding .
also surprising the relatively small number of Bruch perfs given its popularity.

Not sure why my personal favourite violin concerto by Sibelius doesn't make it onto your comparative list -- just shades it over Max Bruch with 47 outings at the Proms.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Not sure why my personal favourite violin concerto by Sibelius doesn't make it onto your comparative list -- just shades it over Max Bruch with 47 outings at the Proms.

Probably because I thought it was composed in the 20’s and I couldn’t be bothered to do the maths as I had with the Elgar - the work in question . Then it turns out it was written in 1905 so it was only entitled to a 10/128ths of credit - making it what 50.671875 perfs ?

[Maclintick]

Probably because I thought it was composed in the 20’s and I couldn’t be bothered to do the maths as I had with the Elgar - the work in question . Then it turns out it was written in 1905 so it was only entitled to a 10/128ths of credit - making it what 50.671875 perfs ?

Seems a respectable calculation. Practically every violinist of note has recorded it and it shows no sign of dropping out of the international concert repertoire -- quite the reverse, if fact, so I'm still at a loss as to why it wasn't included, mathematical sleight-of-hand notwithstanding...

[Ein Heldenleben]

Seems a respectable calculation. Practically every violinist of note has recorded it and it shows no sign of dropping out of the international concert repertoire -- quite the reverse, if fact, so I'm still at a loss as to why it wasn't included, mathematical sleight-of-hand notwithstanding...

Ah well that’s Because the comparative list was compiled by me (in about 15 minutes ) using the Proms archive in an attempt to settle a debate (possibly a rather footling one ) with Master Jacques over whether the Elgar concerto was an over -played “war horse.” It is not a sinister conspiracy to denigrate Sibelius’s masterpiece. If you’d like me to spend longer doing these calculations I think I’d have to start charging my freelance rate.

[Barbirollians]

Caught up with this last night . I thought the Weir piece was interesting and will listen to it again. I love the Spring Symphony but this did not quite thrill me . I know others have cavilled at the recording but the first movement in particular did not go with the terrific swing of the Kubelik recording.

I have not always been Tetzlaff's greatest fan as a concerto soloist - very much in the very good but not the best I have heard but I do think he has become a more emotional interesting player through his chamber music collaborations with I think his sister and the late Lars Vogt . I thought this a terrific performance , very moving in the slow movement and he handled the accompanied cadenza impeccably. Good to see another top European soloist as well as Vilde Frang playing the work when so many like Mutter don't.