Prom 51: J. Weir/R. Schumann/Elgar, BBC SO, Tetzlaff/Oramo, Thurs 24 Aug 2023

[smittims]

I agree with your 'gossamer-orchestrations, quirky forms and light-bright wit'. I think that applies to several living composers whose music I find equally uninteresting. Maybe I'm listening for something else: depth beneath the froth, flavour , personality, individuality, something that makes me want to hear it again and again.

I think all this year's novelties have had the same problem: all very clever, bright and forgettable. What a change from what we had in 2016:

Malcolm Hayes : violin concerto
Huw Watkins: Cello concerto
Thomas Larcher: Symphony no.2
Bayan Northcott: Concerto for orchestra.

Every one a winner, in my humble opinion.

I will listen to Dame, or professor Judith's piece all the same, hoping. By the way I thought she was a professor 'somewhere further north'.

[Master Jacques]

I agree with your 'gossamer-orchestrations, quirky forms and light-bright wit'. I think that applies to several living composers whose music I find equally uninteresting. Maybe I'm listening for something else: depth beneath the froth, flavour , personality, individuality, something that makes me want to hear it again and again.

It's true that we are apt to be suspicious of creative ease, wit and quirky communicability - which is why we have never appreciated Sullivan, for instance, as anything better than some sort of glorified light entertainer. There was a superb article in Opera a few months ago from Mahan Esfahani (of all people!) castigating us condescending Brits for not valuing Sullivan's superlative gifts as they deserved.

It's not just us, of course - the French in their time were equally stuffy about Poulenc, or Berlioz. It's a universal failing. Dr Johnson, arch priest of solemnity, once said about Tristram Shandy, "nothing odd will do long". He was, of course, proved completely wrong; and I dare say that Weir - like Sullivan - will be played when her critics are long gone to dust.

At any rate, it is as well to consider that light, bright entertaining surfaces do not exclude deep and lasting qualities: the novels of Milan Kundera, for instance, demonstrate that - and so, for me, does Weir's music at its best.

[Serial_Apologist]

To be fair, you're not wrong Smittims, as she was Visiting Research Professor at Cardiff for about three years from 2006. And she does make sure she shares her compositional experience with students on a regular basis, even now. I dearly wish I could provide you with a key to why I don't find her music either bland or dull (descriptors which like Serial_Apologist's "routine" leave me frankly baffled). Her gossamer-orchestrations, quirky forms and light-bright wit have always enchanted me: I love the way she refuses to take music solemnly - as opposed to seriously - which in my book, is the cardinal sin of too many contemporary composers. But my words aren't going to change anything!

I cede to your points MJ: not myself being in the best position to adjudge in the operatic sphere, I'll leave my post#10 as a testament to my own ignorance!

[Master Jacques]

I cede to your points MJ: not myself being in the best position to adjudge in the operatic sphere, I'll leave my post#10 as a testament to my own ignorance!

You are too generous, Serial_Apologist!
If you should fancy trying one of Weir's operas, the three I specifically mention are all readily available on CD, with full libretti (which helps, of course). Blond Eckbert is the shortest, and punchiest, based on Tieck's dark tale of unwitting incest. It was given a terrible production at ENO, but is very gripping on disc.

[edashtav]

You are too generous, Serial_Apologist!
If you should fancy trying one of Weir's operas, the three I specifically mention are all readily available on CD, with full libretti (which helps, of course). Blond Eckbert is the shortest, and punchiest, based on Tieck's dark tale of unwitting incest. It was given a terrible production at ENO, but is very gripping on disc.

I’ll add a few wkrds in lraise of Judy Weir’s Youth Opera which I produced at my school in the last century. It was lively, practical,engaging and well-written. using the mirackes of modern science we were abke to fill our stage’s backdrop with a15’ high black arachnid. More recent,y, Welsh Youth Opera staged it earlier this decade. Its introduction tells the story:
“The Black Spider is a creepy, comic tale that takes us from the present day back to the Middle Ages. We revisit ancient Poland, where a mysterious green man offers to protect a village from their evil landlord in exchange for the beautiful Christina’s hand in marriage. When she breaks her promise and weds her true love instead, the village is cursed with a plague from a spider that crawls out of her hand. Christina battles to save her people and eventually buries the spider outside the church to end the disaster. However, centuries later amid excavations at the church, archaeologists are hit by an unexplained virus……”

Judy Weir has something to say and expresses it with economy, wit and panache.

[Master Jacques]

I’ll add a few words in praise of Judy Weir’s Youth Opera which I produced at my school in the last century. It was lively, practical,engaging and well-written. using the miracles of modern science we were ab,e to fill our stage’s backdrop with. 15’ high black arachnid. More fecently Welsh Youth Opera staged it earlier this decade. Its introduction tells the story:
“The Black Spider is a creepy, comic tale that takes us from the present day back to the Middle Ages. We revisit ancient Poland, where a mysterious green man offers to protect a village from their evil landlord in exchange for the beautiful Christina’s hand in marriage. When she breaks her promise and weds her true love instead, the village is cursed with a plague from a spider that crawls out of her hand. Christina battles to save her people and eventually buries the spider outside the church to end the disaster. However, centuries later amid excavations at the church, archaeologists are hit by an unexplained virus……”

Judy Weir has something to say and expresses it with economy, wit and panache.

I've loved reading your description of The Black Spider, edashtav, which has made me want to hear it - I've missed out on what's clearly another real pleasure!

[bluestateprommer]

Kind of an abrupt surprise ending to Judith Weir's new work, Begin Afresh, just now from the BBC SO and Oramo. It also struck me as generally optimistic in tone, like the recent 'novelties' from Derrick Skye and Samy Moussa in other Proms, but a much more understated manner from JW compared to the other chaps.

[JasonPalmer]

Enjoying this prom, looking forward to the violin concerto.

[Alison]

Enjoyable first half; good programme!

[bluestateprommer]

Enjoyable first half; good programme!

Nice of David Owen Norris to mention that Oramo is using antiphonal 1st and 2nd violins for this concert. Will have to revisit the Schumann later, since my laptop crashed in the midst of the 2nd movement (had to whip out my phone to get at least a flavor of the remainder of the Schumann). Bit of a indulgent slowdown in the scherzo from Oramo (not what I associate with him), but never mind, as the BBC SO sounds in fine fettle indeed again, as pretty much all season.

[Alison]

• Not much depth of feeling in the concerto for my money. I wonder what DON thought. Needless encore.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Missed the first half but thought the Elgar was wonderful. Again a lovely string sound from the BBCSO.
What a magnificent encore.

[Alison]

Congratulations on 5000 posts Helders.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Congratulations on 5000 posts Helders.

Thanks very much and how fitting that two people who usually agree on everything for once disagreed! Almost comic in the mirror image.
We cross posted and on seeing your post I almost cancelled mine but that’s a bit dishonest isn’t it ?
And what is this forum if not about polite honesty ?

[Maclintick]

“It’s Elgar, Jim, but not as we know it”.Tetzlaff’s hyper-emotional, indeed, expressionistic take on EE’s violin concerto most likely won’t have pleased Elgar purists, but ably-partnered by Oramo & the BBCSO, he resurrected it from its Edwardian milieu , and, despite some executive tribulations, presented an urgently communicative large-scale vision. OK, his conception didn’t allow enough mystery in the slow movement, but it was all of a piece with the febrile outer movements.
First half was splendid.