Prom 37: Budapest Festival Orchestra, A. Schiff / I. Fischer, Sat. 12 Aug. 2023

[Maclintick]

To my tin ear, the Schumann concerto had some borderline shaky moments.

And how -- the blooper-count in the Schumann was considerable, & the balance on R3 was claustrophobic, emphasising the lower-mid register of Sir Andras's instrument & detaching it from the orchestral accompaniment. Also, there appeared to be some kind of dynamic levelling in play, rendering it all a generalised mezzoforte. Freischütz and the "Scottish" were a different matter -- beautifully calibrated "old-school" performances.

[Ein Heldenleben]

And how -- the blooper-count in the Schumann was considerable, & the balance on R3 was claustrophobic, emphasising the lower-mid register of Sir Andras's instrument & detaching it from the orchestral accompaniment. Also, there appeared to be some kind of dynamic levelling in play, rendering it all a generalised mezzoforte. Freischütz and the "Scottish" were a different matter -- beautifully calibrated "old-school" performances.

I said it was hard ! Oh dear and Schiff is usually so impeccable. I watched Rattle’s Mahler 2 tonight as I noticed it’s about to be taken down along with most of the 2022 proms on iPlayer .

[Maclintick]

It’s not that “generous “ to the pianist because it’s very hard.

Spot-on. The idea that the Schumann concerto is in any sense a lesser challenge because the composer wrote it for his wife -- a mere woman, after all -- is a pernicious falsehood. I've heard more ivory-tinklers come to grief in the last movement, particularly, than in many a Rach 3, where reams of dodgy arpeggiation can be hidden beneath waves of orchestral stodge...

[Ein Heldenleben]

Spot-on. The idea that the Schumann concerto is in any sense a lesser challenge because the composer wrote it for his wife -- a mere woman, after all -- is a pernicious falsehood. I've heard more ivory-tinklers come to grief in the last movement, particularly, than in many a Rach 3, where reams of dodgy arpeggiation can be hidden beneath waves of orchestral stodge...

Yes the orchestra hides a multitude and there are so many notes in the left hand I reckon some miss a few.
It’s interesting that they both have highly chordal cadenzas in the first movement. Schumann’s is difficult but Rach’s is absolutely impossible !
I must listen to the concert.

[Nick Armstrong]

Yes the orchestra hides a multitude and there are so many notes in the left hand I reckon some miss a few.
It’s interesting that they both have highly chordal cadenzas in the first movement. Schumann’s is difficult but Rach’s is absolutely impossible !
I must listen to the concert.

(As recounted hereabouts before) I went to see the film Shine with a concert pianist who said afterwards that he thinks the Schumann concerto is the hardest of all, much more so than “the Rach 3” featured and given that label in the film

[alywin]

And how -- the blooper-count in the Schumann was considerable, & the balance on R3 was claustrophobic, emphasising the lower-mid register of Sir Andras's instrument & detaching it from the orchestral accompaniment. Also, there appeared to be some kind of dynamic levelling in play, rendering it all a generalised mezzoforte. Freischütz and the "Scottish" were a different matter -- beautifully calibrated "old-school" performances.

Yes, I wasn't that taken with the Schumann, although I loved the Mendelssohn - far more light and shade than I'm used to hearing in it.

[kernelbogey]

No applause between movements in the Schumann.... Was there an announcement saying that the musicians preferred it not; or has there been a BBC/ROH general ukase to that effect? Or is there some difference between that audience and - say - that for the Vivaldi & Beethoven Prom 4 (Pekka Kuusisto and The Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen)?

[Petrushka]

No applause between movements in the Schumann.... Was there an announcement saying that the musicians preferred it not; or has there been a BBC/ROH general ukase to that effect? Or is there some difference between that audience and - say - that for the Vivaldi & Beethoven Prom 4 (Pekka Kuusisto and The Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen)?

Schiff is one of those musicians (Haitink was another) who is widely known to be intolerant of poor audience behaviour and a Prom audience will be aware of this.

I've long contended that the inter-movement applause is generated by no more than three or four regulars who do it for a laugh and it has a strong contagious effect. If said regulars take an evening off then there's no inter-movement applause. In the hall, it's impossible to tell where it comes from.

I don't much mind as there will be noise between movements anyway so it might as well be a smattering of applause as anything else.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think Schiff played the Schumann absolutely beautifully. I couldn’t hear many wrong notes in the first movt - maybe one or two slightly understruck? A tiny smudge in the chordal cadenza and that was it . But his touch in those left hand arpeggios in the same section - wonderful . But really tiny blemishes. The piano was very forward in the sound mix so an extraordinary amount of piano figuration usually buried by the orchestra was audible. The variety of touch even in the usually hidden accompanying material was breathtaking. The shaping of the phrases , his tasteful agogics and the very retrained use of pedal - truly he is , for me , one of the greats.
It didn’t sound like the piano was over closely mic’ed to me - much more that it was given a more prominent role in the overall sound picture. Perhaps it’s just a smaller orchestra than normal ? Some notes didn’t ring out as much as usual on RAH Steinways - I wonder if it’s Schiff’s “own “ - reserved for him by the company - or even a Bosendorfer and he has it voiced that way. Have to say some of the midrange notes sounded a bit dead - can’t believe he’d play a piano with unprepared hammers though,
I liked his slightly hard edged approach to the opening chords of the final movement even if it came at the cost of a couple of extra notes not in the score. But at this point I have to say the sound mix became unrealistic with the orchestra almost inaudible over the piano . Wonder if it was like that in the hall? I would be really surprised. Bit unfair on AS as one or two inaccurate piano details usually lost in the orchestra were fairly obvious. All in all a great night if you wanted to hear every note of the piano part ( and a few extra ) played by an absolute master of the keyboard. That variety of touch and plasticity of phrasing - it’s almost miraculous. The way he bought out details in the left hand most pianists ignore - just wonderful.

ps there was something a bit awry on Sat night .The opening of Mendelssohn far too loud with the oboist sounding they were standing in my living room - you can hear the main fader being edged down. Still that’s live for you - never a dull moment .

[silvestrione]

I think Schiff played the Schumann absolutely beautifully. I couldn’t hear many wrong notes in the first movt - maybe one or two slightly understruck? A tiny smudge in the chordal cadenza and that was it . But his touch in those left hand arpeggios in the same section - wonderful . But really tiny blemishes. The piano was very forward in the sound mix so an extraordinary amount of piano figuration usually buried by the orchestra was audible. The variety of touch even in the usually hidden accompanying material was breathtaking. The shaping of the phrases , his tasteful agogics and the very retrained use of pedal - truly he is , for me , one of the greats.
It didn’t sound like the piano was over closely mic’ed to me - much more that it was given a more prominent role in the overall sound picture. Perhaps it’s just a smaller orchestra than normal ? Some notes didn’t ring out as much as usual on RAH Steinways - I wonder if it’s Schiff’s “own “ - reserved for him by the company - or even a Bosendorfer and he has it voiced that way. Have to say some of the midrange notes sounded a bit dead - can’t believe he’d play a piano with unprepared hammers though,
I liked his slightly hard edged approach to the opening chords of the final movement even if it came at the cost of a couple of extra notes not in the score. But at this point I have to say the sound mix became unrealistic with the orchestra almost inaudible over the piano . Wonder if it was like that in the hall? I would be really surprised. Bit unfair on AS as one or two inaccurate piano details usually lost in the orchestra were fairly obvious. All in all a great night if you wanted to hear every note of the piano part ( and a few extra ) played by an absolute master of the keyboard. That variety of touch and plasticity of phrasing - it’s almost miraculous. The way he bought out details in the left hand most pianists ignore - just wonderful.

ps there was something a bit awry on Sat night .The opening of Mendelssohn far too loud with the oboist sounding they were standing in my living room - you can hear the main fader being edged down. Still that’s live for you - never a dull moment .

I agree on the first movement (of the concerto), but a felt slightly disappointed with the slow movement...was it lacking a bit of charm and delicacy perhaps? But what an artist he is now...

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree on the first movement (of the concerto), but a felt slightly disappointed with the slow movement...was it lacking a bit of charm and delicacy perhaps? But what an artist he is now...

It was a bit flat wasn’t it ? The balance didn’t help. I think there was something slightly off with the voicing of the piano. It wasn’t really singing or ringing out but that could be because of so many things - the piano , the piano preparation , mic placement - that it’s difficult to be more specific . Most of that movement is mid range on the keyboard where the problem seemed to be. . I would be surprised if it had anything to do with Schiff’s playing.

[PhilipT]

Some notes didn’t ring out as much as usual on RAH Steinways - I wonder if it’s Schiff’s “own “ - reserved for him by the company - or even a Bosendorfer and he has it voiced that way. Have to say some of the midrange notes sounded a bit dead - can’t believe he’d play a piano with unprepared hammers though,

I was there; it was a Steinway. He used a Bosendorfer for his Preludes and Fugues Book 1 recital a few years ago, but (unless I'm mistaken) has used a Steinway at Proms since. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Hall doesn't so much have its own Steinways as have a contract with Steinway that means that they send an instrument suitable for what's been programmed.

[jonfan]

Watching this Concert on BBC FOUR. Does Joanna Macgregor ever utter an idle word? If only she’d been my piano teacher I might have got somewhere!!

[smittims]

I enjoyed this concert. It was a relief to see there's still room (this year anyway) for the traditional black-tie 19th-century concert. I wonder how much longer it will last.

[edashtav]

I agree on the first movement (of the concerto), but a felt slightly disappointed with the slow movement...was it lacking a bit of charm and delicacy perhaps? But what an artist he is now...

I’ve just heard the Schumann on R.3’s afternoon repeat. The performance captured and maintained my interest, again, but I did feel that something was missing from its slow movement and you’ve identified the missing element, silvestrione. My mind went a long way back. My father had taken me ‘to see Myra Hess”. She was as small as my Great Aunt Lydia and similarly dressed in black, although Myra allowed herself some glossy black accoutrements. Actually, I was disappointed because Dad had told me that she was wont to play during the recent War in the (cold) National Gallery in a fur coat. Back to the Schumann, what remains in my mind of her playing? Her charm and elfin delicacy in the slow movement.
Most recently that has been emulated for me by Jan Lisiecki.
C’mon, Sir Andras, next time please put in a ‘real shift’, and put back the feminine elements which may have been at the core of Robert Schumann’s inspiration!

By the way, re Schumann’s fecund ( thank you EH) melodic interest in this piece. In the coda to its first movement, after the, surprisingly, bravura Cadenza, the woodwind, led I think, by the clarinets add a new twist to a tune. My word did the BFO’ s players ensure that it sounded like a pre-echo of a Dvorak Slavonic dance.