Prom 37: Budapest Festival Orchestra, A. Schiff / I. Fischer, Sat. 12 Aug. 2023

**french frank** · 05-08-23, 13:45

Saturday 12th August, 19.30

"In the first of its three Proms this weekend, the Budapest Festival Orchestra and founder-conductor Iván Fischer are joined by celebrated fellow Hungarian Sir András Schiff for one of the great Romantic piano concertos – Schumann’s generous, poetic bravura piece that renegotiates the relationship between soloist and orchestra.

Weber’s overture to Der Freischütz sees Romanticism take a supernatural turn when a huntsman makes a deal with the Devil.

Darkness and light also meet in Mendelssohn’s atmospheric ‘Scottish’ Symphony, inspired by a twilight visit to the Palace of Holyrood, haunted by memories of Mary, Queen of Scots." [RAH website]

**CallMePaul** · 05-08-23, 17:24

Sir András did say a few years ago that he would not play in Hungary while the present government was in power. I am pleased to see that this does not extend to appearing alongside Hungarian orchestras outside the country. His Schumann has always been excellent so this should be a great concert! I suspect (not a problem of course) that it may overrun when encores are taken into account, especially if the exposition repeat is observed in the Mendelssohn.

**edashtav** · 12-08-23, 13:35

A warm welcome to the Budapest Festival Orchestra and its idiosyncratic conductor, Iván Fischer. Perfect fare: a traditional Concert : overture, concerto & symphony.
In the’Olden’ days, I remember the BBC’s organ happily announcing similar fare by Roger Norrington and his London Classical Players as DEUTSCHE ROMANTIK : German Romantic Evening. These days such rarities must be ordered from Hungary and a ‘paprika’ conductor.

**Pulcinella** · 12-08-23, 13:39

Is it not a surfeit of A minor (aka a!)?

**edashtav** · 12-08-23, 13:46

Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post

Is it not a surfeit of A minor (aka a!)?

yes, the Beeb omits the minor for fear it may prejudice ‘bums on seets’.

But, … you have gently questioned my choice of ‘perfect’
yep , I’m the ‘Perfect Fool’.

**edashtav** · 12-08-23, 14:16

Here is part of a sentence tajen from the BBC publicity for this concert:
“Sir András Schiff for one of the great Romantic piano concertos – Schumann’s generous, poetic bravura piece that renegotiates the relationship between soloist and orchestra.“
I fear that the Beeb owns a random adjective generator.
I have never before heard the word ‘generous’ used of this concerto.
Is it appropriate?

Surely, if the concerto ‘renegotiates the relationship between soloist and orchestra’ , one facet of that is avoidance of ‘bravura’ in the piano part in favour of a more conversational tone between soloist and accompaniment?

**oddoneout** · 12-08-23, 16:28

Originally posted by edashtav View Post

Here is part of a sentence tajen from the BBC publicity for this concert:
“Sir András Schiff for one of the great Romantic piano concertos – Schumann’s generous, poetic bravura piece that renegotiates the relationship between soloist and orchestra.“
I fear that the Beeb owns a random adjective generator.
I have never before heard the word ‘generous’ used of this concerto.
Is it appropriate?

Surely, if the concerto ‘renegotiates the relationship between soloist and orchestra’ , one facet of that is avoidance of ‘bravura’ in the piano part in favour of a more conversational tone between soloist and accompaniment?

Perhaps "poetic bravura" is different...

**edashtav** · 12-08-23, 18:06

Originally posted by oddoneout View Post

Perhaps "poetic bravura" is different...

?? Haha!

**jonfan** · 12-08-23, 19:17

Humbling words from Schiff in the interview with Ian Skelly, ‘being a musician is not a job but a privilege.’

**edashtav** · 12-08-23, 19:26

Weber’s Der Freischütz overture started more slowly and stealthily than usual. The allegro that followed was clear and almost symphonic in mien, leaving the audience expectant for the big chord and upward flourish which announce fun, fireworks, and the opera, itself, or, in concert… a concerto.

The Schumann concerto is a favourite of mine.I’m looking for poetry not bravura, and for conversational give and take between soloisdt and orchestra. Did the broadcast balance favour the piano? Sir András Schiff added plenty of interest through his insightful phrasing and rubato. The second subject gained much from some wonderful woodwind work- soulful and in great contrast with what had gone before. András ensured that middle range figures were never ignored but with the close miking I did feel that I was inside Schiff’s big piano.

. Overall, full marks for a searching and revelatory performance.
The short, slow movement displayed Schumann’s poetry and integration of the solo and orchestral lines at full strength. It was played with freedom and magical beauty.
I loved the link to the finale!
The finale was fun, full of froth, good humour, & elfin peasants dancing on tiptoe.
High marks for insightful, poetic playing and for integration between the piano and orchestra, particularly in the last two movements. Pure unalloyed pleasure.

What a surprising encore, a Zigeuner Song ‘Dear Swallow’ by Brahms sung by the orchestra!

**bluestateprommer** · 12-08-23, 19:38

To my tin ear, the Schumann concerto had some borderline shaky moments. Sir A. was OK, not particularly mind-blowing, but then I had sort of the same reaction 7 years back at the Beethoven / Gewandhaus / Blomstedt Prom in person in the RAH. It seems that Ivan Fischer did refine and scale down the volume in support of Sir A., and the orchestra sounded terrific, of course. Can't fully comment on the Weber overture yet, as my laptop didn't start quite on time for me, so I need to re-visit the overture later from start to finish, although what I heard of it sounded very good indeed.

Well, being a musician is both a job and a privilege, granted that I'm not a musician myself. Musicians need to pay the bills too and to survive, in the material sense. That aside, in hindsight, Sir A. hinted at the first encore when he also said to Ian Skelly in the pre-concert interview something to the effect of "how many orchestras also sing?". Very charming encores, both of them, with Sir A. as accompanist first and then on his own.

**jonfan** · 12-08-23, 20:25

As usual Ed sums up everything succinctly. There was something unsettling about the opening of the Concerto and everything after that was fine. Just enjoying the wonderful ebb and flow of the slow movement in the Mendelssohn; this can go for ever and I’ll never tire.

**edashtav** · 12-08-23, 20:41

Mendelssohn’s Scottish Symphony (#3) in A minor
How I would have loved to hear this work conducted by Richard Wagner on his visit to London in 1855. Here’s part of a concert review in the Daily News

“Mendelssohn's Symphony in A minor, the “ Scottish Symphony “ was played with powerful effect, though the times of some portions of it were not altogether the same as those given by Mendelssohn himself. Probably Mr. Wagner never heard him conduct the symphony. An author's own reading, of course, must be the best; though we confess that Mr. Wagner’s ideas, when they were different, did not always displease us. The immense impetuosity which he threw into the allegro guerrero gave additional grandeur and majesty to the resumption of the first subject which forms the finale.”

Well, Ivan Fischer didn’t play ‘fast and loose’ like Richard (I wonder whether Wagner’s emendations still exist?) , but the scherzo did not lack pace or élan. The slow movement was suitably sentimental but taut rhythmic interpolations stopped it descending into mawkishness. Now for the warlike finale. To my mind it STARTED like a wake after a successful clash of the clans. I willed for the spirit of Wagner to come down and do his best to disrupt the development. History was not on my side, the finale was played several times in Britain, reportedly in a style owing more to Mendelssohn that Wagner, to great audience applause, before Britain faced up to the whole work. Am I in a minority of two, or do other boarders feel there’s a case for putting the finale on a strong war footing before the return of the opening theme and general rejoicing?
I must record that the RAH audience gave tonight’s performance a standing ovation.

The encore was a Dvorak Slavonic Dance # ?

**Ein Heldenleben** · 12-08-23, 21:12

Originally posted by edashtav View Post

Here is part of a sentence tajen from the BBC publicity for this concert:
“Sir András Schiff for one of the great Romantic piano concertos – Schumann’s generous, poetic bravura piece that renegotiates the relationship between soloist and orchestra.“
I fear that the Beeb owns a random adjective generator.
I have never before heard the word ‘generous’ used of this concerto.
Is it appropriate?

Surely, if the concerto ‘renegotiates the relationship between soloist and orchestra’ , one facet of that is avoidance of ‘bravura’ in the piano part in favour of a more conversational tone between soloist and accompaniment?

It’s not that “generous “ to the pianist because it’s very hard. I suppose it’s generous in that the pianist some lovely material with none of the obvious scale and arpeggio passage work that make some concerti feel and sound like Hanon exercises . The pianist also gets a lovely throwaway waltz (?) tune in the final movement .It doesn’t sound flashy but it really is a bravura piece. The second movement is a genuine conversation between piano and orchestra- not brand new in the history of the genre but perhaps taken to a newer more intimate level. It’s also much easier than the outer two .

Prom 37: Budapest Festival Orchestra, A. Schiff / I. Fischer, Sat. 12 Aug. 2023

Prom 37: Budapest Festival Orchestra, A. Schiff / I. Fischer, Sat. 12 Aug. 2023

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