Prom 32: Pejačević/G. Williams/Holst, BBC NOW, G. Lewis/Martín

[Ein Heldenleben]

And let's not forget a famous letter of Mozart expressing his pleasure when the audience applauded during his playing a concerto.

Which is what happens during a jazz set every night of the week.

[Nick Armstrong]

To be honest, I don't mind the clapping and was genuinely interested if someone in the hall could advise if bows were taken after Jupiter? As I would imagine it could come across as rude if the conductor didn't acknowledge the applause.

I was in the hall and can confirm that no bows were taken after Jupiter! However the applause was so thunderous that the conductor did half turn round and acknowledge it, exchanging grins and a double with the prommers. It was a terrific reading of the piece and the response seemed entirely appropriate - and the players looked appreciative. Martín did hold up a hand after he’d turned back around in the hope of being able to get on with things…

At the atmospheric end of Saturn, he seemed to want to proceed immediately to Uranus, remaining poised to go straight on but it didn’t work as applause started and he had to relax until it stopped.

….And curiously, none at all after 'Uranus'.

That was because he didn’t leave a beat before moving into Neptune - that time it foiled the clappers.

I must say that the applause earlier seemed entirely appropriate and didn’t bother me at all. It might have been different if it had been Mahler’s 6th. It just seems that applause is part of the scenery at the Proms now like popcorn (happily inaudible from where we were) and the odd Prommer needing paramedics (they were needed last night after someone hit the deck during the concerto and tottered out with their support).

You know what to expect when you buy a Prom ticket! It was great to see the place absolutely packed out, with a much fuller Arena than I’ve seen for a while.

[Pulcinella]

Uranus moving straight into Venus?
What planet are you on, Nick?

[Roslynmuse]

This, and the Poulenc on Monday, were my first 'in-person' Proms since, I think, 2018. I'm surprised no-one has commented on the poor singing from the LSO ladies at the end of The Planets: missing lines and no rhythmic control in the final section - Jaime Martin was having to skip beats to keep the orchestra with them. After the razor-sharp playing from the LPO on Monday the Holst generally sounded rather ragged, despite some excellent wind playing and strong middle and lower strings. The trumpets were pretty raucous, and generally the brass failed to blend with the rest of the orchestra. The Grace Williams Concerto was given a sensitive performance, I thought, more inward-looking than others I have heard. I agree with the Walton/Britten echoes; I also hear - less expected - Strauss and Szymanowski. I have read in one source that she suppressed the work after the first performance, and elsewhere that she permitted occasional performances - I wonder which is correct? I can understand her doubts about the piece; both the 1st and 2nd movements are deeply felt, but having them side-by-side doesn't make for contrast. The 3rd mt seems the weakest - the harmonic rhythm is still slow, despite the quicker pulse and stronger rhythmic drive, and the harmony itself looks back to the earlier movements. Geneva Lewis made a smallish sound in the hall but it was a convincing performance despite that, and the audience disturbances. Re applause. The 1st mt of the concerto finished, and there was a moment of silence and the soloist and conductor were clearly preparing for the 2nd mt when a ripple of applause started and spread. There are times when applause seems a natural response to what has gone before - Mars and Jupiter invite it - but I get the impression that there is a core in the audience who are determined to applaud at any silence. That seems to me less a response than a form of narcissism. Jaime Martin took it in good part but it did interrupt the flow of his performance when he was keen to move on to the next movement, for example between Saturn and Uranus. And there were some there who started to applaud at the 'false' ending of Saturn and had to be shushed. And while I'm on about audience behaviour - there were a lot of phones out during the performance, taking videos; and there was a lot of conversation around me too while the music was playing. Often by the same people who were taking videos.

[french frank]

And while I'm on about audience behaviour - there were a lot of phones out during the performance, taking videos; and there was a lot of conversation around me too while the music was playing. Often by the same people who were taking videos.

Part of the world in which we live, I'm afraid. As with Radio 3, being more welcoming and inclusive does mean welcoming what is in fact quite normal behaviour in other contexts. It seems unwelcoming/snobbish/elitist [sic] to complain, but at the same time it will push out the audience which finds the behaviour (or taste) inappropriate.

[Roslynmuse]

Part of the world in which we live, I'm afraid. As with Radio 3, being more welcoming and inclusive does mean welcoming what is in fact quite normal behaviour in other contexts. It seems unwelcoming/snobbish/elitist [sic] to complain, but at the same time it will push out the audience which finds the behaviour (or taste) inappropriate.

I'm a frequent concert-goer in Manchester and rarely see anything like that at the Bridgewater Hall which is probably why I found it so disturbing last night. There were clear announcements made that photography was not permitted but these were clearly there to be ignored!

[french frank]

I'm a frequent concert-goer in Manchester and rarely see anything like that at the Bridgewater Hall which is probably why I found it so disturbing last night. There were clear announcements made that photography was not permitted but these were clearly there to be ignored!

That may be because the BBC and Proms go all out to attract new concert-goers (with high profile media attention), in a way that the Bridgewater doesn't? Just a suggestion, I really don't know.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Part of the world in which we live, I'm afraid. As with Radio 3, being more welcoming and inclusive does mean welcoming what is in fact quite normal behaviour in other contexts. It seems unwelcoming/snobbish/elitist [sic] to complain, but at the same time it will push out the audience which finds the behaviour (or taste) inappropriate.

Would it be snobby and elitist to suggest that in concert mobile phone videoing might well occur during the Planets but probably wouldn’t happen during a Bruckner or Mahler symphony?
I did witness some Russian fans of Anna Netrebko take pics of her during the end of an act of Macbeth at Covent Garden once. This was in the stalls circle centre - quite expensive seats. A lady next to me had , amazingly , flown all the way from Tokyo specifically for this opera and was very annoyed about it . I complained to an usher who handled it superbly. Before the beginning of the next act she came up to our group of about 10 and said “ Right you lot - no more photos ok ? “

[Pulcinella]

Would it be snobby and elitist to suggest that in concert mobile phone videoing might well occur during the Planets but probably wouldn’t happen during a Bruckner or Mahler symphony?
I did witness some Russian fans of Anna Netrebko take pics of her during the end of an act of Macbeth at Covent Garden once. This was in the stalls circle centre - quite expensive seats. A lady next to me had , amazingly , flown all the way from Tokyo specifically for this opera and was very annoyed about it . I complained to an usher who handled it superbly. Before the beginning of the next act she came up to our group of about 10 and said “ Right you lot - no more photos ok ? “

I fear that a sense of entitlement (I'll behave how I damned well want!) has infiltrated everything and everywhere in our (dare I say post-Brexit?) society.

[Simon B]

Would it be snobby and elitist to suggest that in concert mobile phone videoing might well occur during the Planets but probably wouldn’t happen during a Bruckner or Mahler symphony?
I did witness some Russian fans of Anna Netrebko take pics of her during the end of an act of Macbeth at Covent Garden once. This was in the stalls circle centre - quite expensive seats. A lady next to me had , amazingly , flown all the way from Tokyo specifically for this opera and was very annoyed about it . I complained to an usher who handled it superbly. Before the beginning of the next act she came up to our group of about 10 and said “ Right you lot - no more photos ok ? “

No doubt snobby and elitist is what you'd be accused of for expressing that view in a more general arena than this. It is very much evidence-based though, subject to my anecdata being accepted as worthwhile evidence. Different audiences for different things: The Planets seems to have an almost unique reach beyond the usual audience for live orchestral performance.

The ROH (particularly the ushers whose role can't be the easiest) deserves credit for consistently and quite forcefully intervening against smartphone merchants where possible, even post-pandemic. I have zero patience for people waving lit screens around in a blackout and have asked offenders to desist countless times. If they're bigger, uglier or seem readier for a confrontation than me (takes some doing on all counts these days) wherever possible I'll involve an usher. Almost always they weigh in, often with admirable diplomatic forcefulness. The uniform and corresponding authority presumably helps.

With its new stance on pints of lager, wine and () popcorn in the auditorium the RAH seems to be on a mission to reduce going to a concert to an act of voyeurism - you can forget proper engagement and active listening. They may as well do it properly and facilitate a return to the days of boxes being used for... clandestine activities. At least the voyeurs would have something interesting to ogle whilst stuffing their faces with redundant yet seemingly urgent extra calories.

[Nick Armstrong]

Uranus moving straight into Venus?
What planet are you on, Nick?

Oh pooo Neptune, yes … Breakfast brain-fade

And Roslynmuse, yes the off-stage (right up at the back) chorus was pretty ropey, it’s true…

[smittims]

I'm saddened but not surprised to read these notes of audience misbehaviour. I agree with Pulcinella. I used to travel in the 'quiet coach' and tired of reminding people that they're not allowed to use mobile phones, and getting resentment, sarcasm and abuse in response. Now I find it quieter inthe 'noisy' coach, usually because it's at the other end of the train where fewer passengers venture. But I think I'll continue to confine my Prom listening to a safe distance of 158 miles from the RAH.

[Nachtigall]

I must say I don't care to be lectured by Bryn or anybody else with the implication that I'm a "stuffed shirt" because I object to applause between movements. Inter-movement applause, now almost de rigueur among some sections of the Proms audience, strikes me as often sounding trivial and automatic rather than genuine anyway. Thank goodness it's rare to find it at other concert venues. I look forward to the Berg and Mahler 7 tonight and trust that the experience will be unmarred.

[Bryn]

I must say I don't care to be lectured by Bryn or anybody else with the implication that I'm a "stuffed shirt" because I object to applause between movements. Inter-movement applause, now almost de rigueur among some sections of the Proms audience, strikes me as often sounding trivial and automatic rather than genuine anyway. Thank goodness it's rare to find it at other concert venues. I look forward to the Berg and Mahler 7 tonight and trust that the experience will be unmarred.

What I wrote was "And some here wonder why many of the general populous think of those of us who enthuse about 'classical music' as stuff-shirts". If the cap fits, by all means, wear it, but I was referring to the views of "many of the general populous".

[Ein Heldenleben]

I must say I don't care to be lectured by Bryn or anybody else with the implication that I'm a "stuffed shirt" because I object to applause between movements. Inter-movement applause, now almost de rigueur among some sections of the Proms audience, strikes me as often sounding trivial and automatic rather than genuine anyway. Thank goodness it's rare to find it at other concert venues. I look forward to the Berg and Mahler 7 tonight and trust that the experience will be unmarred.

I trust so as well . If I can strike another “snobby and elitist “ note (see Carmelites thread) it is often the popcorn eaters who have the most overly stuffed of shirts. I guess the one bonus of them carrying a tub of popcorn around is that they can’t applaud as much without spilling it.