Prom 27: López/Rachmaninov/Walton, BBC SO/BBC SC, 4 Aug 2023

[ardcarp]

We watched the televised version of the Prom tonight...trying to keep cool about the awful presentation team (Wayne Marshall excepted...who didn't get much of a word in).

The Rach was brilliant I thought. Belshazzar was our main interest, Hampson could have been more dramatic I thought, but as a whole this extraordinary (and favourite) work went well. The conductor at times kept the choir singing quite quietly when appropriate, not an easy thing to do with large and spread-put forces.

[Nachtigall]

We watched the televised version of the Prom tonight...trying to keep cool about the awful presentation team (Wayne Marshall excepted...who didn't get much of a word in).

Awful indeed, but at least it complied with the BBC’s current diversity obsession and with people who are unable or unwilling to pronounce the letter ‘t’. Wayne Marshall knew what he was talking about; by and large the others just gushed and would have been at a loss without recourse to the word ’incredible’. All these Proms presenters seem to have been charged with the mission to employ maximum hyperbole.

As for the performance of Belshazzar, I agree that it seemed rushed and its impact correspondingly diminished.

[smittims]

Well said, Nachtigall. On 'Woman's Hour' recently there was a guest who couldn't or wouldn't pronounce 't'. I tired of her 'expec'ing' , 'main'enance' etc. Is it a new affectation, like the 'Australasian interrogative'?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well said, Nachtigall. On 'Woman's Hour' recently there was a guest who couldn't or wouldn't pronounce 't'. I tired of her 'expec'ing' , 'main'enance' etc. Is it a new affectation, like the 'Australasian interrogative'?

Steady on chaps- you’re talking about Sarf Lunnoners Gods own people in my view. Pretty sure the East End talks the same but I rarely ventured there,

[smittims]

I wouldnt mind a genuine regional accent, but in this case it was clearly someone who had acquired an 'educated' accent but had chosen to retain or re-introduce, this element.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wouldnt mind a genuine regional accent, but in this case it was clearly someone who had acquired an 'educated' accent but had chosen to retain or re-introduce, this element.

Oh doing a Tony Blair?

[jonfan]

We watched the televised version of the Prom tonight...trying to keep cool about the awful presentation team (Wayne Marshall excepted...who didn't get much of a word in).

The Rach was brilliant I thought. Belshazzar was our main interest, Hampson could have been more dramatic I thought, but as a whole this extraordinary (and favourite) work went well. The conductor at times kept the choir singing quite quietly when appropriate, not an easy thing to do with large and spread-put forces.

I have to disagree this time Mr A re presentation; I thought Georgia Mann excellent and one of my favourite R3 presenters; she knows her stuff.. Any R3 presenter is better than someone who is just an enthusiast; that's why Gary Lineker presents MOTD and not some one off the terraces.
Superb Rach as you say but the Walton was a disaster from the start with well out of tune tenors; intonation was an issue throughout the performance. Walton gave the baritone actual notes to sing whereas Hampson spoke many of his lines.

[duncan]

Gosh! Were you there during the rehearsal?

Not personally so a secondary source, but from two highly reliable people that were there.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Not personally so a secondary source, but from two highly reliable people that were there.

Interesting point that re your original post .A conductor is completely at liberty to vary things between rehearsals and performance with a professional orchestra - all part of the fun . But doing that with an amateur chorus is , shall we say , high risk. Given the number of times I’ve seen things go awry on the opera stage with the chorus having to move and act, with poor eye lines to the conductor and those tiny b/w monitors it’s pretty high risk even with professionals.

[Simon Biazeck]

Interesting point that re your original post .A conductor is completely at liberty to vary things between rehearsals and performance with a professional orchestra - all part of the fun . But doing that with an amateur chorus is , shall we say , high risk. Given the number of times I’ve seen things go awry on the opera stage with the chorus having to move and act, with poor eye lines to the conductor and those tiny b/w monitors it’s pretty high risk even with professionals.

Opera has its own problems as you have described and we all take responsibility, but if the orchestra refuses to play on the beat (or as close to it as is helpful) chorus ensemble suffers and they take the rap. Those thoroughbreds of the stage, the soloists, seem to get away with rather more. b/w monitors are digital these days and relay behind - genius. Opera - a series of obstacles. (copyright Simon Biazeck) It's a minor miracle that any of it works. But I diverge.

Walton: the fast speeds were beyond comfortable for me, but I hear that some in the hall didn't perceive the problems as acutely.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Opera has its own problems as you have described and we all take responsibility, but if the orchestra refuses to play on the beat (or as close to it as is helpful) chorus ensemble suffers and they take the rap. Those thoroughbreds of the stage, the soloists, seem to get away with rather more. b/w monitors are digital these days and relay behind - genius. Opera - a series of obstacles. (copyright Simon Biazeck) It's a minor miracle that any of it works. But I diverge.

Walton: the fast speeds were beyond comfortable for me, but I hear that some in the hall didn't perceive the problems as acutely.

I salute the chorus for singing on the beat. I suspect some orchestra players take their cue from others in the section. Do you know I thought there was a delay in the opera house monitors and you’ve confirmed it. I’ve mentioned before the film about the German opera house prompter who , in addition to mouthing the words (loudly ) conducts a fraction of a beat ahead of the conductor - that seems to sort the problem - at least as far as the soloists are concerned,

[Pulcinella]

Because of the delay in the sound being produced, organists are quite used to anticipating the beat.
Any tendency for a hymn to drag, for example, is often because they are following the congregation, not leading it.

[Cockney Sparrow]

........Walton gave the baritone actual notes to sing whereas Hampson spoke many of his lines.

I was taken to task by Mrs CS - my reason for thinking Hampson's performance - reaching for a word to match my feelings - weird. I asked myself - was it just because he was completely different from the tradition of all soloists I'd heard, going back to Benjamin Luxon and of course recordings. Yes - sprechgesang came to mind (as did luxuriating in the sound of his own voice and "is he covering up a sadly depleted vocal resource?").
Listening to the end of the Walton, it seemed to take off in sections of unacceptable overdive - pressing the life out of the work, particularly the last choral section. Makela seemed to enjoy himself, did the orchestra and audience? (That part of the audience who would be aware how hard driven it was, that is).