Is tripartisanship over the SNP's bid to retain the £ bullying?

[ahinton]

Bloody hell! I hope you are not right! Today a friend (French) related a dream he had last night of British tanks swarming over the border into Scotland to combat self-styled armed independence fighters, and militia-style vigilante groups in England and Scotland going around and "getting" people if they had the wrong accent!!!!!

Amusing insofar as it goes and as long as it remains only in the traumatic imagination then it's OK, I guesas, but a few warning shots across the bows might not come amiss, since history has long since taught us that nationalism can have a nasty habit of running out of control, sometimes with the most disastrous results for society.

One can therefore only hope that, whatever the outcome next Thursday in Scotland and on 9 November in Catalunya, Scots do not find themselves wholly at odds with the rest of UK and Catalans with Spain...

[visualnickmos]

One can therefore only hope that, whatever the outcome next Thursday in Scotland and on 9 November in Catalunya, Scots do not find themselves wholly at odds with the rest of UK and Catalans with Spain...

I concur wholeheartedly with you. History is a strange beast.

[johnb]

I've recently listened to a number of SNP speakers and they remind me of religious zealots - full of ardent assertions, full of belief in their own righteousness, dismissive of views or facts that don't fit in with their creed, full of woolly, romantic desires which they mistake for reality.

I suspect that, as in most divorces, the negotiations will result in much ill will and antagonism. I am sure that Scotland can be a prosperous country (whether it would be more or less prosperous than the combined UK is a different matter) but the first five to ten years could be very bloody. Alex Salmond has carefully avoided laying out the risks involved in separation so the nationalists will blame all the problems that an independent Scotland experiences (and there will be many) on an adverse settlement caused by the "intransigence" of those English bastards.

In the UK-rump many people with feel "if they want shut of the rest of us they can b*gger off - sod them".

I would be very sorry indeed if Scotland left the UK - IMO it would diminish us all - but even if there is a No vote the margin is likely to be very thin and the nationalists will inevitably return to campaigning for independence within the next five years or so. The past has shown that devolution has only increases the desire for independence. If that pattern is repeated with Devo-Max and if Scotland is eventually going to vote for separation within the next 10 years then it would be better if we got it over with now and avoided the continuing uncertainty.

[ahinton]

I would be very sorry indeed if Scotland left the UK - IMO it would diminish us all - but even if there is a No vote the margin is likely to be very thin and the nationalists will inevitably return to campaigning for independence within the next five years or so.

If Scotland votes No, will there be another referendum on independence at a later date?

http://scotreferendum.com/questions/...-a-later-date/ asks

If Scotland votes No, will there be another referendum on independence at a later date?

and provides the

Answer: The Edinburgh Agreement states that a referendum must be held by the end of 2014. There is no arrangement in place for another referendum on independence.

It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.

That strikes me as pretty unequivocal; the only room for such a possibility would appear to be in a future Scottish government wanted to overturn this status quo and, as it would have to seek permission to do so from Westminster (as distinct from the current situation in which Westminster has given the Scottish electorate the right to decide for themselves) and would almost certainly not get it, it would seem that a "No" vote really would be the end of the matter.

[johnb]

... it would seem that a "No" vote really would be the end of the matter.

I'm not convinced. Politicians are a wiley bunch at the best of times and Alex Salmond is the wiley-est of them all. There seems to be enough wiggle room in those statements, e.g. "the current Scottish Government" and I can't see Alex Salmond and the other ardent nationalists meekly relinquishing, for the next 25 years, their dream of independence.

[visualnickmos]

I can't see Alex Salmond and the other ardent nationalists meekly relinquishing, for the next 25 years, their dream of independence.

Oh, no! You mean this whole damn thing could creak and rumble on for decades?

[ahinton]

I'm not convinced. Politicians are a wiley bunch at the best of times and Alex Salmond is the wiley-est of them all. There seems to be enough wiggle room in those statements, e.g. "the current Scottish Government" and I can't see Alex Salmond and the other ardent nationalists meekly relinquishing, for the next 25 years, their dream of independence.

Maybe you can't but, as I wrote, this time around, a largely Conservative Westminster government (whose representation in Scotland is minuscule) granted the Scottish electorate - not Mr Salmond per se - the right to hold this referendum, notwithstanding all the shortcomings surrounding its premises, terms and conditions that have already been widely discussed; if it goes "No", you surely don't imagine that Salmond or one of his successors will be able to persuade Westminster (whichever colour of government there or none) to grant it again for another shot, do you?

[ahinton]

Oh, no! You mean this whole damn thing could creak and rumble on for decades?

For that I would vote - no, I mean guess - "No"; if there's a "No" next week, it certainly won't go away as such but I do think that this will be the end of it in practical terms for many years.

[visualnickmos]

.....if there's a "No" next week, it certainly won't go away as such but I do think that this will be the end of it in practical terms for many years.

I agree.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The yobbish behaviour of many Yes supporters may well push the vote the other way.