Is tripartisanship over the SNP's bid to retain the £ bullying?

[P. G. Tipps]

Saw this on the way home

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-referendum-britons-urged-to-fly-saltire-flag-as-leaders-scramble-with-nine-days-to-save-union-9720714.html

HA HA HA Pathetic and desperate
It really does look like they have blown it completely

Cameron might go down in history as the PM who lost Scotland

Hmmm ... well he might ... but it was Miliband who had the silly idea for this patronising Saltire nonsense as mentioned in the article and also #369!

Many of us who have no political allegiance will not find any of this particularly funny, more of a complete nightmare, tbh.

[teamsaint]

Kinda makes you want to move up there while the passport is good......

Two Scottish grandparents seals the deal, right?

Will they have their own Proms ?

[visualnickmos]

I actually seem to have the feeling that whatever happens, the average Brit (and I include Scots, here) won't really notice any tangible change in their day-to-day lives at ground level.

[MrGongGong]

Hmmm ... well he might ... but it was Miliband who had the silly idea for this patronising Saltire nonsense as mentioned in the article and also #369!

Many of us who have no political allegiance will not find any of this particularly funny, more of a complete nightmare, tbh.

All of em


Orkney KW17

[P. G. Tipps]

I actually seem to have the feeling that whatever happens, the average Brit (and I include Scots, here) won't really notice any tangible change in their day-to-day lives at ground level.

Well if a plunging pound and crashing stock market producing higher mortgage rates and taxes, reduced pensions, higher unemployment, plus carved-up and weaker utilities and armed forces accompanied by a constitutional crisis and general political chaos, do not actually produce any tangible change in the day-to-day lives at ground level of the average Brit (including Scots) then I suppose you may well be proved absolutely correct ...

[MrGongGong]

Will they have their own Proms ?

Possibly, and I suspect they wont have the effing "Sea Songs"
another reason to pack ?

This from todays Independent letters puts it quite well I think

The main argument of the No campaign is that people should vote out of economic self-interest. Their slogan might well have been “Better-off together”.

But, even if Scots could be persuaded that they might be “better off” staying in the UK, for many this would still not determine their vote.

Some people choose self-employment, with its attendant financial risks, rather that work for a boss or a company they don’t like. People take early retirement, go part-time, move to lesser paid jobs etc – all to improve their quality of life, knowing they will not be better off financially. The No campaign seems to regard the voters as wholly materialistic. But many are not.

[visualnickmos]

Well if a plunging pound and crashing stock market producing higher mortgage rates and taxes, reduced pensions, higher unemployment, plus carved-up and weaker utilities and armed forces accompanied by a constitutional crisis and general political chaos, do not actually produce any tangible change in the day-to-day lives at ground level of the average Brit (including Scots) then I suppose you may well be proved absolutely correct ...

I see what you are saying, but I really do not believe that the catastrophe you describe, will not result directly from a 'yes' vote. In fact there is a much greater risk of some or all the above occurring through corporate bankers and their continuing greed, a UK government (either party) continuing to balls everything up, and so on...

[MrGongGong]

I see what you are saying, but I really do not believe that the catastrophe you describe, will not result directly from a 'yes' vote. In fact there is a much greater risk of some or all the above occurring through corporate bankers and their continuing greed, a UK government (either party) continuing to balls everything up, and so on...

Even though it's not worked out
the currency
the EU
the oil
etc etc

What IS encouraging is that people are prepared to take a bit of risk for something that they believe might work
This seems to be a REAL alternative not the sh*t that we are supposed to buy from Oxoboys chums
Because of all the media attention on the "character" many people in Scotland really DO believe that most people in England are now part of the UKIP clown-bigot society and want to distance themselves as far away as possible. I don't blame them.

[P. G. Tipps]

Sir John Major summed it all up on the Today programme this morning ... many people just don't seem to realise the inevitable consequences for everyone in the UK (not just Scots) if there is a Yes vote. All these consequences have been well documented but have often fallen on deaf ears due mainly to petty political hatreds both north and south of the border

Yesterday, Salmond talked about the 'Election' on the 18th Sept and I think many Scots seem to think it is exactly that and the result can be overturned later. Salmond is so wily I'm not convinced that this was simply a slip of the tongue. His use of language to sway voters has been undeniably masterly, if dishonest in the extreme.

I was also reading yesterday that the Scottish Army will consist of 3,500 regular soldiers and its Air-Force will boast the grand total of six helicopters. No navy was mentioned though the country consists of numerous islands and it's main land mass is virtually one as well.

If this vote weren't so serious it it would be the most hilarious political joke in world history.

[MrGongGong]

A Smaller Army (no need to take part in dodgy wars ?)
No Nuclear Weapons

Two things that would be very attractive to many people

[P. G. Tipps]

A Smaller Army (no need to take part in dodgy wars ?)
No Nuclear Weapons

Two things that would be very attractive to many people

Obviously ... but that doesn't tie with joining NATO, as Salmond wants, and letting other countries do the dirty work to keep us safe!

[MrGongGong]

Obviously ... but that doesn't tie with joining NATO, as Salmond wants, and letting other countries do the dirty work to keep us safe!

The youngsters I met last week talked about being away from England and it's dodgy international reputation as something that would make them much safer.
Being in bed with the USA doesn't make anyone "safe"

[ahinton]

The youngsters I met last week talked about being away from England and it's dodgy international reputation as something that would make them much safer.
Being in bed with the USA doesn't make anyone "safe"

That might well have been the case, but how does "independence" guarantee that any of these people (or indeed anyone else) actually will find themselves to be "away from England and its dodgy reputation" should a "Yes" vote be the result next week?

What makes them think (assuming that they do) that Scotland's reputation is, or could become, any better than that of England (and what about those of Wales and Northern Ireland?), especially when some major Scotland-based corporations are threatening to relocate south of the border if a "Yes" vote pertains but who'd all probably refrain from doing so were a post-"independence" Scottish government to offer them a nice reduction in the rate of corporation tax to discourage them, especially as such a move would also likely have the effect of attracting English and other corporations to relocate to Scotland?

What makes them think that they would be "free" of English and other British influences of many kinds as a direct consequence of a "Yes" vote when Scotland will (a) continue to trade with the rest of Britain as well as with the rest of Europe, (b) want to remain or become an EU member in its own right and therefore continue to trade with other EU member states and remain subject to EU influences, (c) they don't even know what currency they will have post-"independence" (and, after all, if they can neither have the British pound or join the Eurozone with immediate effect, they'll hardly be able to set up their own currency overnight)?

And, finally, what makes anyone think that an "independent" Scotland will no longer be in any sense "in bed" with USA (albeit no longer via Westmonster)?

None of the above is intended to convey a belief on my part that Scotland should or should not be "independent" of the remainder of UK; my views on the subject end at the point at which the raft of confusion, uncertainties and anomalies that beset the voters (and the rest of us, for that matter) take precedence and establish beyond question that the very calling of this referendum is gravely premature and, frankly, something of an insult to British citizens in general and the Scottish electorate in particular. I do believe that the Scottish electorate (despite their by no mens all being Scots) should be given the opportunity to make this decision, but not before these various issues are clarified, because only when they have been so clarified will voters know for (or against) what they're voting.

[P. G. Tipps]

Update ... the new Scottish navy would have two frigates from the Royal Navy's current fleet, four mine counter measure vessels and two offshore patrol vessels, according to the BBC.

That should just about prevent an Icelandic invasion, I suspect ...

[MrGongGong]

That might well have been the case, but how does "independence" guarantee that any of these people (or indeed anyone else) actually will find themselves to be "away from England and its dodgy reputation" should a "Yes" vote be the result next week?

What makes them think (assuming that they do) that Scotland's reputation is, or could become, any better than that of England (and what about those of Wales and Northern Ireland?), especially when some major Scotland-based corporations are threatening to relocate south of the border if a "Yes" vote pertains but who'd all probably refrain from doing so were a post-"independence" Scottish government to offer them a nice reduction in the rate of corporation tax to discourage them, especially as such a move would also likely have the effect of attracting English and other corporations to relocate to Scotland?

What makes them think that they would be "free" of English and other British influences of many kinds as a direct consequence of a "Yes" vote when Scotland will (a) continue to trade with the rest of Britain as well as with the rest of Europe, (b) want to remain or become an EU member in its own right and therefore continue to trade with other EU member states and remain subject to EU influences, (c) they don't even know what currency they will have post-"independence" (and, after all, if they can neither have the British pound or join the Eurozone with immediate effect, they'll hardly be able to set up their own currency overnight)?

And, finally, what makes anyone think that an "independent" Scotland will no longer be in any sense "in bed" with USA (albeit no longer via Westmonster)?

None of the above is intended to convey a belief on my part that Scotland should or should not be "independent" of the remainder of UK; my views on the subject end at the point at which the raft of confusion, uncertainties and anomalies that beset the voters (and the rest of us, for that matter) take precedence and establish beyond question that the very calling of this referendum is gravely premature and, frankly, something of an insult to British citizens in general and the Scottish electorate in particular. I do believe that the Scottish electorate (despite their by no mens all being Scots) should be given the opportunity to make this decision, but not before these various issues are clarified, because only when they have been so clarified will voters know for (or against) what they're voting.

Good points
and it's a shame that there isn't a vote for real independence
Voting has never guaranteed anything

I do admire the confidence and enthusiasm even though so much isn't worked out at all
If everyone waited for things to be sorted, worked out, stable etc we wouldn't have many composers

I do think this a (rare?) case of people planning to actually vote FOR something