Is tripartisanship over the SNP's bid to retain the £ bullying?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... but in fifty years' time or more the SNP could be as relevant to Scottish politics as the LibDems are to England now.

I respect the SNP too much to suppose they would vacillate in order to gain 30 pieces of silver. Mind you, I once felt that way about the Lib-Dems...

[Flosshilde]

Perhaps not in the same way! But I suspect that once Scotland is independent there will be a shifting in the political landscape. The Conservatives could re-gain their strength & gain the conservative elements of the SNP. Labour - well, their opposition to independence could cost them dear & lose them support to the socialist parties, although they could gain support from the SNP's more liberal side. As for the Parliament, after independence will provisions in the devolution Act still be relevant, or could it be re-structured?

[Dave2002]

Because it's their currency too. They even print their own banknotes. It is arrogance on the part of England to assume we are charge of everything.

Indeed, and makes me wonder why the BofE is still called "The Bank of England."
Perhaps it should be called something like the "UK State Bank" right now - but of course there are historical reasons for the name, and changing it now might be too much bother.

[Serial_Apologist]

Indeed, and makes me wonder why the BofE is still called "The Bank of England."
Perhaps it should be called something like the "UK State Bank" right now - but of course there are historical reasons for the name, and changing it now might be too much bother.

They could always call on Banksy to come up with a new name and name plate. Probably cheaper.

[french frank]

Because it's their currency too. They even print their own banknotes. It is arrogance on the part of England to assume we are charge of everything.

It's 'their' currency because they are part of the United Kingdom. If they withdraw, that would not be the case.

According to the BoE, Scottish (and Irish) banknotes are not legal tender in England & Wales; nor, technically, are English banknotes legal tender outside England & Wales. They are legal currency, but that is not the same thing (US dollars and Hungarian forints are legal currency, if it comes to that).

The Isle of Man has its own pound which is exchanged at parity with the GBP; but the IoM is not 'independent' - it's a Crown Dependency.

[Dave2002]

But what is legal tender? Does it relate to the time when the sentence "I promise to pay the bearer ..." had some slightly more significant meaning?

[french frank]

But what is legal tender? Does it relate to the time when the sentence "I promise to pay the bearer ..." had some slightly more significant meaning?

It means that if the sum is offered in payment of a debt or purchase, it is recognised as representing the legal discharge of that debt or purchase. Legal currency can be offered, but it has to be by arrangement between two parties: so you can 'legally' discharge a debt in Hungarian forints if the creditor agrees to accept them. But if he refuses, you can't claim that you have 'legally' offered to settle your debt and the creditor wouldn't take them.

I think.

[jean]

The Isle of Man has its own pound which is exchanged at parity with the GBP; but the IoM is not 'independent' - it's a Crown Dependency.

Which is what Ireland had, after it did become independent.

Couldn't the Bank of Scotland have just gone on issuing its own notes, as it does now? And then sneaked in some coins when nobody was looking.

I don't know how the problem of interest rates was resolved between GB and Ireland after independence, mind, and I haven't seen that discussed anywhere.

[Dave2002]

It means that if the sum is offered in payment of a debt or purchase, it is recognised as representing the legal discharge of that debt or purchase. Legal currency can be offered, but it has to be by arrangement between two parties: so you can 'legally' discharge a debt in Hungarian forints if the creditor agrees to accept them. But if he refuses, you can't claim that you have 'legally' offered to settle your debt and the creditor wouldn't take them.

I think.

That sounds fair.

I was amused earlier to day to hear about the "currency" in Tahiti during the 18th Century. Firstly, they didn't initially have one, but then when the British and French arrived prostitution became popular, and payment was in nails. At one point a barrel of nails was stolen, which was potentially a bad thing as the nails were needed for ship repair, but actually the nails were returned without too much fuss as the barrel produced a surfeit of available currency, thus reducing the worth of each individual nail. Accidental quantitative easing on a large scale!

A currency can be anything which is acceptable to the trading parties. A legal currency requires a social framework. Legal tender not only requires a social framework, but also some additional rules (laws) which can be invoked in the case of disputes. In societies which have taxation (most, nowadays) there can also be other side effects, as using non-standard currencies could be seen as a way of avoiding tax, thus activating other rules (laws).

[MrGongGong]

The currency thing is more than a little ridiculous IMV

Either you want (and surely the key is in the word?) Independence or you don't?
If the Scottish people decide this is what they really want, which is more to do with a 'romantic' idea than cold headed pragmatism (which in itself isn't a 'bad' thing, we do suffer from leaders always assuming that economics is the driver of all decisions) then why on earth would you want to have a currency from the idea that you have rejected?

Its a bit like the idea (popular with some fish smokers) that you can divorce your wife then turn up once a week to have sex with her as you enjoyed that bit!

and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10632342/European-Commission-Alex-Salmonds-tuition-fees-plan-breaks-EU-law.html

[Flosshilde]

Scptland had pounds from the 15th century; initially (I think) they were worth the same as English pounds, but the two drifted apart. When James VI succeeded to the English throne they were brought into some sort of parity, & then the Treaty of Union made provision for the Scottish pound to be replaced (not exactly what happened, but more or less) with the English pound.

So if Scotland retained the pound on independence, on a parity with the English pound to begin with, but gradually drew apart, it would simply be echoing what happened before and during the Union.

[MrGongGong]

So if Scotland retained the pound on independence, on a parity with the English pound to begin with, but gradually drew apart, it would simply be echoing what happened before and during the Union.

Surely that means that there wont be "Independence" then in the way that most people understand what the word means?

(I wonder what Scotty's dictionary says ? )

[aeolium]

What about the member states of the eurozone then? Are they independent states or is their independence compromised as Scotland's would be if it attempted to remain in a sterling currency union while becoming politically independent?

[Flosshilde]

From thinking that the Euro was a wonderful idea (so easy for travelling round Europe) I now think that it has been a disaster for most countries that have adopted it, from the conditions imposed on those wishing to join to the impact on those members whose have had economic problems. My main worry with regard to Scotland becoming, or remaining, a member of the EU on independence would be that it was obliged to join the Euro.

[MrGongGong]

From thinking that the Euro was a wonderful idea (so easy for travelling round Europe) I now think that it has been a disaster for most countries that have adopted it, from the conditions imposed on those wishing to join to the impact on those members whose have had economic problems. My main worry with regard to Scotland becoming, or remaining, a member of the EU on independence would be that it was obliged to join the Euro.

Surely the problem with the Euro is the way that some countries have been allowed to break the rules for political reasons.
The ability to work anywhere in Europe and to have a system that allows people from the UK to be paid is a great thing and we have been at a considerable disadvantage by being outside , Inspite of the mess that some countries have made of the Euro it remains a good idea if you want to be able to work in the rest of the EU particularly at a time when the margins for whether something is financially viable or not are so small.