Is tripartisanship over the SNP's bid to retain the £ bullying?

[MrGongGong]

Making things up? What things?

The plans for student funding in relation to English students
(it's always possible to weave some convoluted legalistic argument that says that it's ok, classic political tricksterism)

[Flosshilde]

I haven't read the acres of print that make up EU regulations (I don't suppose you have, either?) so I can't say with any certainty that the 'Yes' group are making it up or not, but there does seem to be a possibility, under EU regulations, that English, Welsh & NI students could still be charged fees after Scottish independence. The main problem is that both sides present possibilities as certainties. The 'No' campaign did the same with the currency union. There will be a Westminster election 6 months after the referendum, and a different government. Who knows what the position will be then?

[MrGongGong]

I haven't read the acres of print that make up EU regulations (I don't suppose you have, either?) so I can't say with any certainty that the 'Yes' group are making it up or not, but there does seem to be a possibility, under EU regulations, that English, Welsh & NI students could still be charged fees after Scottish independence. The main problem is that both sides present possibilities as certainties. The 'No' campaign did the same with the currency union. There will be a Westminster election 6 months after the referendum, and a different government. Who knows what the position will be then?

You are right that there is a potential legal "wiggle" but it seems (as with the situation now with English students) that they are relying on a protracted (Jarndyce v Jarndyce ?) legal process that will drag on for years. Hardly inspiring is it?

I thought that the Bank of England was now independent ?
But even if they DO vote yes and keep the pound , that's not "independence" really.

Like I said before, romantic (and i'm a musician so romantic reasons for doing things are fine by me and are often preferable to economic ones) independence is fine BUT

[Flosshilde]

Agree with the emotion - my argument about the referendum campaign is that the claims about being better off out of/in the UK, about membership of the EU, preferring the SNP government to the Tories, Scotland having free child care for all etc etc will be irrelevant in a hundred years' time. It's the gut feeling, the emotional reason, that matters.

If the result is 'Yes' all the resulting (Westminster) Bill should say is "Scotland will be a seperate state (again)". The rest of it is negotiation & discussion after the Bill is passed.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But even if they DO vote yes and keep the pound , that's not "independence" really.

Using that argument, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece and other countries using the Euro, are not independent countries.

[MrGongGong]

Using that argument, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece and other countries using the Euro, are not independent countries.

That's not really comparing like with like is it?
One of the main driving forces for Scottish Independence is wanting a separation from Westminster and London
joining the Euro would give that but having the Bank of England (I think the clue is in the E word ?) doesn't really.

[ahinton]

That's not really comparing like with like is it?
One of the main driving forces for Scottish Independence is wanting a separation from Westminster and London
joining the Euro would give that but having the Bank of England (I think the clue is in the E word ?) doesn't really.

One might argue that this would depend upon which of the two "E" words you mean here...(!)...

There still seems to be doubt over what impact Scottish independence might have on Scotland's EU membership and its future entitlement (should it ever wish for it) to adopt the Euro as its currency. Catalunya will doubtless be watching what happens carefully, as its own independence referendum (for all the continuing lack of clarity over its extent) is scheduled to take place within less than eight weeks of Scotland's and the same kinds of doubt apply there, too.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That's not really comparing like with like is it?
One of the main driving forces for Scottish Independence is wanting a separation from Westminster and London
joining the Euro would give that but having the Bank of England (I think the clue is in the E word ?) doesn't really.

This brings us back to the OP and the word "bullying". England assumes that it owns Scotland, whereas we are nominally a "united kingdom", implying equal status for both - including the banking system.

[Serial_Apologist]

This brings us back to the OP and the word "bullying". England assumes that it owns Scotland, whereas we are nominally a "united kingdom", implying equal status for both - including the banking system.

EA - what you seem to be saying is that under things at present, the Westminster government has no more right to disallow Scotland's right to retain the £ than would the Scottish parliament the rest of the UK. But stated that way the illogic of this position is immediately revealed, given that it is not the rest of the UK that is seeking independence from Scotland.

If an independent Scotland were to depend on £, wouldn't this be rather analogous to a woman who, having achieved a separation from her dominating husband, makes an extenuation allowing him to visit her new address without conditions of any kind regarding conduct, at any time of his wishing?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

EA - what you seem to be saying is that under things at present, the Westminster government has no more right to disallow Scotland's right to retain the £ than would the Scottish parliament the rest of the UK. But stated that way the illogic of this position is immediately revealed, given that it is not the rest of the UK that is seeking independence from Scotland.

If an independent Scotland were to depend on £, wouldn't this be rather analogous to a woman who, having achieved a separation from her dominating husband, makes an extenuation allowing him to visit her new address without conditions of any kind regarding conduct, at any time of his wishing?

Yes, that's one way of looking at it. But I imagine if England were seeking independence from the rest of the UK, it would expect to take the pound with it, and the rest of the former union could go…. …. …. ….

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, that's one way of looking at it. But I imagine if England were seeking independence from the rest of the UK, it would expect to take the pound with it, and the rest of the former union could go…. …. …. ….

And if England were seeking independence, that wouldn't arise!

[french frank]

When Czechoslovakia broke up the Czech Republic and Slovakia adopted separate versions of the koruna, initially at par. Eventually it was Slovakia that joined the euro and the Czechs continue with the koruna. If as Floss says, it's the 'gut feeling, the emotional reason, that matters', it's difficult to see why the Scots (the smaller country, like Slovakia, only moreso) want to retain the pound.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And if England were seeking independence, that wouldn't arise!

Why not? The other three parts of the UK could claim the pound as theirs by the current logic of the 3 main parties.

[MrGongGong]

England assumes that it owns Scotland,

erm
Which "England" is that then ?
This oft repeated statement seems more rooted in the past than present or even in reality
what is worrying is that several the Scottish University students I met last week seem to think that EVERYONE in England is now a member of UKIP and they had better vote YES to stay in the EU

don't Japanese interests own most of the Whisky industry anyway ?

[french frank]

Why not? The other three parts of the UK could claim the pound as theirs by the current logic of the 3 main parties.

It's a nonsense, surely, to suppose England would seek 'independence' in the way the Scots are? It might want to set up an English parliament, but that would be no different from what Scotland has, and the Welsh Senedd, within the UK. And also the settlement of the West Lothian question.