The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

[MrGongGong]

I would like to think that it's because so many folks slapped him :-)

[teamsaint]

Didnt take long for the newbie to start making things even worse....

Unsurprisingly.......

[Serial_Apologist]

Didnt take long for the newbie to start making things even worse....

Unsurprisingly.......

I can't wait ...

[teamsaint]

I can't wait ...

You won't have to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28700449

Also, I see that the number fines for parents giving their kids a holiday when they can actually afford it are up 70%. Briliant.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Also, I see that the number fines for parents giving their kids a holiday when they can actually afford it are up 70%. Briliant.

This is one area in which I'm not entirely in disagreement with Mr Gove.

Sometimes parents have expected teachers to give their children work to do to ensure they don't fall behind. It really doesn't work like that.
Many of these legalised truancy holidays have been to expensive location - expensive even at off-peak times.
There are already 13 weeks to choose from, without transgression, though I appreciate that holiday firms/hotels/etc. exploit those 13 weeks ruthlessly.

Parents sometimes take their children away at very short notice, sometimes very close to music instrumental exams, and then blame the teacher when things go horribly wrong.

It's not uncommon for children to arrive back home too exhausted to return to school. So more school is missed. Similarly, holiday bugs can have the same effect.

Blame Mr G. for everything else, but not this.

[jean]

Youth Hostels don't put their prices up in the school holidays as far as I know!

[teamsaint]

Ok, I admit it. its my own fault. I clicked on a daily telegraph education article on google news.

If the article had been about how to run a nineteenth century army without thinking too much, on a modest budget, it might have been reasonable. As a prescription for modern education, it is really scary.

According to the author, obedience, ( deference, following orders unquestioningly , whatever), is the key.

I mean, , there are sane, rational, intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate , educated people out there.
Why can't they be in charge? Just once?

Read it if you must....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...character.html.

I feel some British values coming on.....

[jean]

According to the author, obedience, ( deference, following orders unquestioningly , whatever), is the key...

If it could be guaranteed that getting rid of obedience, deference or whatever you want to call them you would unleash true creativity and real learning, it would be no contest.

Unfortunately the author is quite right when he writes that "low-level disruption in British schools is damaging the quality of learning and the atmosphere of school life. Teachers are too often intimidated and are unable to teach properly. Students who want to learn are thwarted from doing so, and an atmosphere of disorder permeates the classrooms and corridors in schools across the country."

[teamsaint]

[QUOTE=jean;430849]If it could be guaranteed that getting rid of obedience, deference or whatever you want to call them you would unleash true creativity and real learning, it would be no contest.

Unfortunately the author is quite right when he writes that "low-level disruption in British schools is damaging the quality of learning and the atmosphere of school life. Teachers are too often intimidated and are unable to teach properly. Students who want to learn are thwarted from doing so, and an atmosphere of disorder permeates the classrooms and corridors in schools across the country."[/QUOTE

All of which is of course the most spectacular generalisation, spouted from the safety of the head's office at Wellington, (£25k a year, and that is just for day pupils)and which ignores the root causes of all this low level disruption.
One of those causes is a society in which obedience to the existing order is placed well above questioning that order.
Asking the right questions, is rather important, IMO.


( my wife has taught for some considerable time in some of the toughest schools in Hampshire, and they ARE tough, so I have seen the effects of disruptive behaviour on teachers very close up)

[jean]

Then your wife will know, just as I and most teachers who've tried to teach in difficult situations will know, that we need to do something in the meantime before we have managed to revolutionise society in the ways you suggest.

I rather think it's easier for someone sitting in the safety of the head's office at Wellington not to recognise that there just may be are problems in schools other than his own which are not of the teachers' making.

[Serial_Apologist]

If it could be guaranteed that getting rid of obedience, deference or whatever you want to call them you would unleash true creativity and real learning, it would be no contest.

Unfortunately the author is quite right when he writes that "low-level disruption in British schools is damaging the quality of learning and the atmosphere of school life. Teachers are too often intimidated and are unable to teach properly. Students who want to learn are thwarted from doing so, and an atmosphere of disorder permeates the classrooms and corridors in schools across the country."

All of which is of course the most spectacular generalisation, spouted from the safety of the head's office at Wellington, (£25k a year, and that is just for day pupils)and which ignores the root causes of all this low level disruption.
One of those causes is a society in which obedience to the existing order is placed well above questioning that order.
Asking the right questions, is rather important, IMO.


( my wife has taught for some considerable time in some of the toughest schools in Hampshire, and they ARE tough, so I have seen the effects of disruptive behaviour on teachers very close up)

Yes indeed TS. Does anyone remember RD Laing's "good -> bad -> mad" ascription in "The Politics of Experience" to teenagers who go off the rails after showing every early sign of being destined to be good, obedient citizens?

[teamsaint]

Then your wife will know, just as I and most teachers who've tried to teach in difficult situations will know, that we need to do something in the meantime before we have managed to revolutionise society in the ways you suggest.

I rather think it's easier for someone sitting in the safety of the head's office at Wellington not to recognise that there just may be are problems in schools other than his own which are not of the teachers' making.

Speaking for my wife, (which is a bit presumptuous, but I think I am on safe ground, )I think she would probably say that there comes a time when you have to look at the root cause, and get that dealt with. Encouraging an unquestioning obedience to the social order, ( which Wellington represents), will mean that the problems will never go away. They certainly haven't so far. Educating kids to ask difficult , searching questions about the nature of our society might help things change, but it wouldn't be very popular with the establishment, I suspect.

Too many crocodile tears, I'm afraid. Too much blame of teachers striking. Too much demand for obedience, and not enough questioning of why kids behave disruptively. What is the end game? my guess is that he wants a compliant workforce for the leaders of the future that he is preparing .

[jean]

Low-level disruption is rarely if ever the result of unquestioning obedience.

[teamsaint]

Low-level disruption is rarely if ever the result of unquestioning obedience.

Self evidently. But it might well be the result of those in authority seeking it.

It's only part of something much wider, in any case.

[MrGongGong]

I feel some British values coming on.....

Nothing worthwhile in life can be achieved without discipline, obedience to authority and hard work.

Hard work and focus absolutely
BUT "obedience to authority" ?

So that would probably get rid of most of the musicians and artists we admire
also bye bye
Einstein (expelled)
Gandhi (not exactly an example of "obedience to authority")

The problem with these kind of "common sense" statements is that they couple things together that are completely different.
Thinking about this can someone come up with an example of something REALLY "worthwhile" that was created through "obedience to authority" ? I mean REALLY worthwhile (like the B Minor Mass or the invention of the steam engine).