The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

[MrGongGong]

It isn't often I find myself in agreement with anything Judas Iscariot's OFSTED has said, but the graduate thing is surely right, in that since Surestart (good in someways) began, many nurseries have been no better than playgroups, staffed by people with no in-depth knowledge of child development.
My concern is the Gove/Willshaw style of teaching by unimaginative methods of 50 or more years ago: "fill the pot; don't light the candle".

Do you mean graduates who have studied child development?
Seems ok to have anyone teaching in a private or free school though ?

Spot on about the "empty cup"

What's wrong with playing ?
Everyone, adults and children alike need to play, to really PLAY

[jean]

What's wrong with playing ?
Everyone, adults and children alike need to play, to really PLAY

Nobody, not even OFSTED, is suggesting otherwise.

The children we are talking about don't get that chance.

[MrGongGong]

Nobody, not even OFSTED, is suggesting otherwise.

The children we are talking about don't get that chance.

Why should the institution of School be the best place though ?
There are plenty of other possibilities (many of which are seeing their funding cut)
This seems like an attempt to standardise things for one sector of society, we can't have the "nanny state" interfering with our "charitable" private schools though !

Actually the agenda of the DFE (and OFSTED) is "anti-play" in that it sees education as a race, a competitive sprint to the next stage, then the next stage and so on.... We expect children to have an adult head far too much IMV.
If everything is preparation for the next bit when do we get to be where we are NOW?

Good teachers know about this stuff.

What on earth is school for in the first place ?
If we destroy curiosity and a sense of exploration about the world in an attempt to solve (real) problems then we are truly failing.

What is the point of more and more testing when those in charge of no respect or understanding of those who really HAVE studied how children learn ?

[jean]

Why should the institution of School be the best place though ?

That's a question worth discussing.

There are plenty of other possibilities (many of which are seeing their funding cut)

That's been mentioned before here as well.

I have some experience teaching courses for parents within a Sure Start scheme - GCSE English (I doubt if there would be funding for that now!) and ESL classes. They ran other courses of all sorts too. It was all admirable, but it was clear to me then that the parents who were most in need of guidance towards understanding what their children needed so that they could be involved positively in their development were the ones we did not reach at all.

The rest of your post is concerned with later stages of education, and I agree with most of what you say.

Anyway, I'm a bit tired of being attacked so roundly for things I haven't even said, so I think I'll retire from this thread.

The next time anyone wants to have a go at me, could they do me a favour and read my posts carefully first? Thanks.

[MrGongGong]

Anyway, I'm a bit tired of being attacked so roundly for things I haven't even said, so I think I'll retire from this thread.

The next time anyone wants to have a go at me, could they do me a favour and read my posts carefully first? Thanks.

erm

I think you seem to be perceiving a discussion as an "attack" ?
It's a bit "pot kettle" IMV

You lot in your nice middle-class enclaves really have not the slightest idea.

Never mind.
enjoy the spring

(i'm just off to sacrifice a virgin to ensure my organic basil grows...... ;-) )

[Flosshilde]

(i'm just off to sacrifice a virgin to ensure my organic basil grows...... ;-) )

That shows you live in a middle-class enclave (probably gated) - anywhere else the girls are all feckless (what is a 'feck', anyway? Is being 'feckless' anything to do with not giving a feck?) & having children to get benefits & housing & don't know how to look after them.

(You might be sacrificing a virgin boy - although I think they're hard to find even in nice middle-class enclaves) (not that I've tried)

[MrGongGong]

That shows you live in a middle-class enclave (probably gated) - anywhere else the girls are all feckless (what is a 'feck', anyway? Is being 'feckless' anything to do with not giving a feck?) & having children to get benefits & housing & don't know how to look after them.

That's no way to speak about the Queen :whistle:

[french frank]

what is a 'feck', anyway? Is being 'feckless' anything to do with not giving a feck?)

Feckless is the opposite of 'feckful' where 'feck' if held to be a distortion of 'effect'. Feckless would be a form of 'ineffective' or 'inefficient'.

You should know that - it's Scottish ...

Sorry, wrong thread :-)

[teamsaint]

Under the kind of regime that gove would like, if you actually got all the 5 year olds Turning up with shoe laces done up,toilet trained, speaking nice, etc etc, what would happen?
They would then try to "raise standards" by introducing more grammar and maths tests, which they could then fail.

What a load of nonsense. We have a (very expensive) system with failure built in, and which , as Ken Robinson says, is just an extended university entrance test.

What we Really badly need is a system with the possibility of development and success at its heart.

We are, sadly, a very very long way from this, and not just for those at the bottom end of the achievement measures.

[MrGongGong]

Under the kind of regime that gove would like, if you actually got all the 5 year olds Turning up with shoe laces done up,toilet trained, speaking nice, etc etc, what would happen?
They would then try to "raise standards" by introducing more grammar and maths tests, which they could then fail.

What a load of nonsense. We have a (very expensive) system with failure built in, and which , as Ken Robinson says, is just an extended university entrance test.

What we Really badly need is a system with the possibility of development and success at its heart.

We are, sadly, a very very long way from this, and not just for those at the bottom end of the achievement measures.

Can't we just get Sir Ken back ?
(I've said this so many times before)
Kick Gove into the swamp he crawled out of and have someone who really KNOWS about things to make these decisions ?

GRRRRRRRRRR

[Flosshilde]

You should know that - it's Scottish ...

But I'm not (well, nor completely)


(I thought it was Irish :winkeye:)

[Flosshilde]

Can't we just get Sir Ken back ?

Baker?

[MrGongGong]

Baker?

NO NO NO

Robinson is the man we need (and not because he is a man !)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The latest non-idea is to try to get maths PhDs to teach in schools, despite being unqualified and inexperienced, for £40,000 a year?

[Anna]

...... but it was clear to me then that the parents who were most in need of guidance towards understanding what their children needed so that they could be involved positively in their development were the ones we did not reach at all.

Did anyone see the programme Mr. Drew's Boys on C4? It struck me that the boys involved all seemed very bright but profoundly unhappy and their bad behaviour due, I think, almost entirely to the parents not the teachers. I think teachers get blamed too much for things which are entirely beyond their control.