The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Miss out the shoelaces, then. They're not essential to the argument.

Just think about the rest.

Any child multiply deprived to the extent I've outlined is going to be seriously disadvantaged throughout their school career.

I'm not disagreeing with you - I just don't dwell quite so much on the actual skills at this stage.

[MrGongGong]

I'm not disagreeing with you - I just don't dwell quite so much on the actual skills at this stage.

Indeed

No-one needs to learn to tie their shoelaces anyway...... Velcro is a wonderful thing

The danger is that attempts to deal with REAL problems (and I too encounter these things) result in more institutionalisation, less play, less imagination and more stress all round.

[jean]

Forget the shoelaces, FGS. But talk to my sister-in-law.

You lot in your nice middle-class enclaves really have not the slightest idea.

[amateur51]

It's about both, and it needs to be tackled by as many means as can be thought of.

Even Sure Start, so disgracefully truncated by this government, only reached the parents who were ready to be reached.

.

The trashing of Sure Start baffled me as the evaluations showed its many benefits; and now Mr Clegg is angling for universal free school meals instead

[teamsaint]

Forget the shoelaces, FGS. But talk to my sister-in-law.

You lot in your nice middle-class enclaves really have not the slightest idea.

really? What Really?

I think its not a great idea to make assumptions about peoples experiences, skill, background.

The teacher I know best had her last job as head of English at a very upmarket private (prep) school. Before that she had taught for many years in a variety of state junior and Primary schools, all of them with really pretty tough catchment areas, (including pretty much the toughest in Southampton, )and she knows ALL about the social and development problems that such schools need to deal with.

And I have spoken to her on this very subject, and her opinion is that it is a bonkers scheme, and that the solutions lie outside of formal classroom teaching for the under fours.

She lives in a middle class enclave. :) and winkyeyething.

[MrGongGong]

Forget the shoelaces, FGS. But talk to my sister-in-law.

You lot in your nice middle-class enclaves really have not the slightest idea.

Get off your high horse won't you
Care to come to the PRU with me tomorrow ?
Thought not

You obviously don't know my friend Jack
and no-one was disagreeing with you

[MrGongGong]

We missed you at the PRU today Jean
I'm sure you would have found it most interesting
(I did)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

MrGG and anyone else -

In the interest of safeguarding, it is important not to refer to individuals at work by name.

[jean]

We missed you at the PRU today Jean...

Sorry - but you forgot to tell me which one it was.

...no-one was disagreeing with you

I think they were, as a matter of fact.

It's unfortunate that this suggestion from OFSTED (for which I don't have much time usually) is being presented as sending two-year-olds to school as though it meant sitting them all at desks and preventing them from playing.

It doesn't.

[MrGongGong]

MrGG and anyone else -

In the interest of safeguarding, it is important not to refer to individuals at work by name.

That's not my real name ;-)

[jean]

And I'm not at work.

[teamsaint]

MrGG and anyone else -

In the interest of safeguarding, it is important not to refer to individuals at work by name.

Oh I never do. The guy who signs the pay cheques call " Sir", and the rest I ignore.

[MrGongGong]

And i'm far to busy deciding on what organic pesto to put on my sourdough to bother ..........

The young people I met today would make anyone weep
I'm not sure that if they were sent to school at age 2 it would have made any difference at all

[Flosshilde]

My sister-in-law is deputy head of a primary school in a very deprived area. A proportion of her intake in reception class every year cannot hold a pen when they arrive. They are also not toilet-trained, cannot tie their shoelaces, have poor verbal skills because they've been in front of a TV all day and nobody talks to them, and some cannot even walk properly because they're kept strapped into buggies.

Hasn't that always been the case? Children develop & learn skills at different times. To complain that some can't hold a pen at four, while others can, and that the former are somehow lacking in skills, is, to my mind, as daft as complaining that some children are below average (as Mr Gove has done).

[jean]

Forget the shoelaces (as I said above), forget the pen-holding. They're marginal.

Do you really think that the rest can easily be remedied from the age of five?

A child who at five is not toilet-trained and can't walk properly, and whose verbal skills are severely restricted because they've never been talked to, is not just 'below average' in developmental terms.