The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

[jean]

And of course there are NO private schools in Finland

And they read the news in Latin on Finnish radio.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I didn't think there were lower case letters in Latin...

[MrGongGong]

http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/164759623/michael-gove-voodoo-pincushion

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

enjoy

[MrGongGong]

http://pouchfairy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pob-Gove.jpg

[Serial_Apologist]

I love a euphemism
(can you be something you are part of ?)

My brain thinks so

[ardcarp]

I love a euphemism

..is euphemism a euphemism for double entendre?

[MrGongGong]

..is euphemism a euphemism for double entendre?

I don't know
but give me one and i'll tell you if I think it is

[Serial_Apologist]

..is euphemism a euphemism for double entendre?

I don't know, I'm deaf in one ear.

[ardcarp]

Coming back to the private parts of our education system (nudge wink)

Thus do they, under cover of charitable works, quietly cream off the most academically gifted from the State sector.

Many (most?) independent schools are pretty 'comprehensive' in their ability range. There are of course the Winchesters and Etons which seek out the able, but I suspect the majority accept most kids whose parents can pay the fees. Like you, Jean, I am slightly troubled by the 'paying for privilege' aspects of the private sector. I have however seen the things it can do in music, drama and the arts generally, and also what it can do in terms getting the most out of children's sometimes hidden abilities. I'm sure some state schools do this too...but alas not any known to me.

[Flosshilde]

the things it can do in music, drama and the arts generally, and also what it can do in terms getting the most out of children's sometimes hidden abilities.

Given the money available to build facilities & employ enough teachers it jolly well should be able to work wonders with the least promising pupils.

I'm sure some state schools do this too...but alas not any known to me.

The fact that they can do as well as they do is a miracle; give them the same funding as private schools & see what they can do.

An interesting piece in the Guardian the other day on Gove's wish that state & private schools should be indestinguishable, pointing out that if state schools replicated private education's facilities, it would require the teaching workforce to be tripled to roughly 1.3 million. & if Marlborough College's 11 rugby pitches, eight cricket squares, 14 cricket nets, 12 tennis courts, ... eight-lane swimming pool and .22 rifle range, were provided by state schools it would require (according to one calculation) 33m acres, or more than half the English countryside

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/03/state-schools-independents-michael-gove

But of course state schools would be expected to produce the same results on the cheap, without the funding the private sector gets (some provided by us, in the form of rates relief & tax breaks because they are 'charities')

[MrGongGong]

There are of course the Winchesters and Etons which seek out the able,

HA HA HA yeah right
I would question your use of the word 'able' when applied to some of the more high profile ex-pupils

I have however seen the things it can do in music, drama and the arts generally, and also what it can do in terms getting the most out of children's sometimes hidden abilities. I'm sure some state schools do this too...but alas not any known to me.

There are many known to me

But of course state schools would be expected to produce the same results on the cheap, without the funding the private sector gets (some provided by us, in the form of rates relief & tax breaks because they are 'charities')

I think there is so much 'received wisdom' about these things.
There us a huge assumption that somehow ALL private education is better
and an inability to examine what education is FOR

[jean]

Many (most?) independent schools are pretty 'comprehensive' in their ability range. There are of course the Winchesters and Etons which seek out the able, but I suspect the majority accept most kids whose parents can pay the fees...

That's why topping up their intake with bright children whose parents couldn't afford the fees is such a great wheeze.

But the private sector doesn't always get it right (allegedly).

[MrGongGong]

But back to mr Gove and chums
A simple way of looking at all of this stuff is to ask yourself the question

Would you eat at a restaurant where all the staff go somewhere else to eat?

Would you trust someone to be in charge of something that they don't have enough faith in to use themselves?

There's nothing 'wrong' with people going to all sorts of schools.
BUT to have the person in charge constantly undermining and refusing to even read real educational research is unacceptable.

People believe all sorts of nonsense about education
I've had arguments with people who insist that A level music doesn't include 'Classical Music' (and the comedy cellist JLW is guilty of this) who will still insist that this is the case even after being sent a pdf of the syllabus !
Myth is a powerful thing and Gove is well into Mordor territory (though I don't think he listens to Gorgoroth !)

[ardcarp]

Oh dear. I seem to be seen as the apologist for independent schools and even for Mr Gove. Heaven forbid. However, here's a tiny anecdote. A local comp. made a complete hash of trying to put on a musical...a hash that resulted in the show being postponed then cancelled. Can you imagine the effect of this on the kids who were all fired up to do it, many very talented? I suggested to the Head that some of his staff and a few kids might like to go and see a performance of Cabaret which was about to be done at an independent school not too far away.
You should have seen his reaction. He was clearly being asked to sup with the Devil. When I persisted and hinted that his staff just didn't have the experience or knowledge to put on a production of any sort (none at the school in living memory) he said, "Don't forget we're starting from a very low base. We are in the ....[he named our rural location]" I'm afraid I replied with an expletive. I might well have leapt over the desk and strangled him.

What hope is there when expectation is so low? This is nothing to do with funding.