The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

[MrGongGong]

Another time, another place.
But I don't trust NICE, just for starters.

What's wrong with biscuits ?

BUT that's NOT what the choice is
its not a choice between evil pharma and the sky fairies
i'd trust people who really ARE clever

NOT mr Gove and chums

Sir Ken really does know

(no apologies for reposting this )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

[teamsaint]

But lots of doctors are " Clever", and lots of them are prepared to use or offer homeopathic remedies.

One of the most popular GPs at our surgery is prepared to offer them as an option.

Clever and wise are different things.

[MrGongGong]

But lots of doctors are " Clever", and lots of them are prepared to use or offer homeopathic remedies.

One of the most popular GPs at our surgery is prepared to offer them as an option.

Clever and wise are different things.

Thats probably because most people aren't really ill
or have things that will get better on their own
which is fine, reassurance is always good for you
but not if you really are sick

Harold Shipman was "popular" so is Justin Beiber


But back to mr Gove ?

[teamsaint]

1. Some people either do get better or think they get better via homeopathy.

2. I don't know anybody who is suggesting that all conventional should be replaced by homeopathy. But 0.017 % of the budget isn't much to ask for freedom of choice.

3. Reassurance isn't always good for us .

4.Not all popular people are bad.

Since you mention it, how would you deal with people "who aren't really sick or will get better anyway"? The mail and other papers have some good ideas on this !

I think we have rather too much rationing by default. They tried to get me to **** off with my (potentially life threatening) double hernia. (so I had to pay £3k for an op which was messed up by a clever surgeon, which he fortunately discovered and rectified just in time).
I don't blame the miniscule amount of NHS budget allocated to homeopathy, I blame self seeking politicians and senior NHS managers .

But this should be elsewhere.

[MrGongGong]

But 0.017 % of the budget isn't much to ask for freedom of choice.

So you really think that we should employ faith healers ?
Maybe if we read the entrails of chickens to decide when it was auspicious ?

fine if you want to do that
BUT don't waste public money on such nonsense

It's not "freedom of choice" though
Its "freedom" to spend other peoples money on sugar pills

A bit like so called "free" schools who have the "freedom" to employ anyone with a DBS regardless of whether they know anything about teaching. But we can't mess with "freedom of choice" can we ?

BUT (back On Task)

What Sir Ken says is spot on imv

[teamsaint]

freedom of choice is a two edged sword, in education (back of topic there)health and elsewhere.
Compulsion based on somebody else's whim, opinion, or prejudice is very dangerous .

Some people think we shouldn't "waste " education budget on music, when we need to train people to do real work.

Ken is great.

[MrGongGong]

What is missing (as always)
Is the discussion about what education is for
It was missing from the whole shake up of music education as well.
It's always assumed that we all understand what school is for, but put simply people don't share the same views on this

[ardcarp]

The system drives many good teachers away

It does indeed, but worse still it deters many with talent from considering it as an occupation.

Whatever the ethics of independent education, these schools do seem to offer opportunity for teachers to fulfil their sense of vocation. Probably a big generalisation......

One might mention that many independent schools quietly offer places free of charge in cases of need. Some (Christ's Hospital for instance) always have, but I think many others now take the 'charitable' aspect of their foundation seriously.

It sounds as if I'm being some sort of apologist for the system. In fact there is much inner wrangling with my left-leaning instincts!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I confess to having been to an independent school myself, but have only taught in the state system. It has given me a view of both sides.

The standard of teaching I experienced ranged from inspirational to lazily inept. The best was excellent (as it is in the state system) but the worst was utterly appalling, with teachers who would never survive in the state system. Class sizes were what you might call "normal" in the 11-14 agae range (1-3 then; 7-9 now), but appreciably smaller in the optional exam subjects (though still full size in maths, English and modern languages). The real advantages lay elsewhere - magnificent sports facilities and extra-curricular musical activities to die for. In the state system, Sir Keith Joseph and Kenneth Baker's anti-teacher and prescriptive policies put an end to initiative, exacerbated by Ofsted under the thumb of the discredited Chris Woodhead.

[jean]

One might mention that many independent schools quietly offer places free of charge in cases of need. Some (Christ's Hospital for instance) always have, but I think many others now take the 'charitable' aspect of their foundation seriously.

Thus do they, under cover of charitable works, quietly cream off the most academically gifted from the State sector.

[aeolium]

This article illustrates both the way in which economic inequality affects the education system and also the way in which it is reinforced by it:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/04/education-system-polarises-people-economic-inequality

"For schooling, the country to which utopians look is Finland, where 99.2% of school education is state-funded. In Finland, there is no inspection of teachers, no league tables; pupils are not set or streamed, and, as Diane Reay, professor of education at Cambridge, explains: "In four international surveys, all since 2000, Finnish comprehensive school students have scored above students in all the other participating countries in science and problem-solving skills, and came either first or second in reading and mathematics. These results were achieved despite the amount of homework assigned in Finnish schools being relatively low, and an absence of private tuition.""

So that Gradgrind system of measurement and inspections, which Gove appears to think is inadequately rigorous, doesn't seem so indispensable after all.

[MrGongGong]

And of course there are NO private schools in Finland
(there are a handful of Steiner schools and a few religious ones I think)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Anyone else who had done such an incompetent job over a period of 4 years would have been dismissed by his employer. We employ Gove, but we have to wait for 5 years before he might be removed. The problem with politicians is that they come as part of a package.
Was it Tony Benn who advocated a directly elected cabinet?

[MrGongGong]

The problem with politicians is that they come as part of a package.

I love a euphemism
(can you be something you are part of ?)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The demoralisation of teachers is getting worse. So many are now looking for alternatives to a career they believed in, but with Gove now having given himself the power to change conditions of service, pay and pensions to an unacceptable degree, the damage will be long-term, even without all the academy/free school nonsense.