The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

[jean]

He'll be reintroducing School Certificate next.

He's already tried that with his English Baccalaureate.

[jean]

I mean you don't want people to think they are wasting their money

They're not, though. They're paying to have the harder to teach and potentially disruptive pupils kept out.

And of course for class sizes half of those in the state sector - I haven't seen any plans to change that.

[MrGongGong]

And of course for class sizes half of those in the state sector - I haven't seen any plans to change that.

Blimey, you mean that being in a class of 14 means you get more education ?
No Shit Sherlock

Everyone I have ever met who knows the first thing about education will tell you that class sizes are important
but apparently NOT the government grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[teamsaint]

well the government knows a thing or two about statistics.

They say

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-conservative-claims-rising-living-standards/17587

although everybody else says

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10611303/Workers-real-salaries-suffer-longest-decline-for-half-a-century.html

oh, and on homeopathy, (off topic but previously mentioned) 29% of Europeans use it,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/homeopathic-medicine-euro_b_402490.html

which is 4 X the number of British people who use private schools.

So, choice. Good thing?or do we trust the current government and its appointees to tell us what is good for us?

Or put another , purely statistical way, is the right to choice of around 20/25% of the population worth 0.017% of the NHS budget?
Small price for freedom, surely?

[MrGongGong]

Or put another , purely statistical way, is the right to choice of around 20/25% of the population worth 0.017% of the NHS budget?
Small price for freedom, surely?

No
because it's a dangerous fraud (like mr Gove) that will result in people who are really ill dying

Some people (and their children) need protecting from their own stupidity
and the children that many of us work with need protecting from this dipstick

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The man is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid. (Mr Gove, I mean - not you MrGG:winkeye:)

I would have thought even David Cameron could see that.

[MrGongGong]

The man is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid. (Mr Gove, I mean - not you MrGG:winkeye:)

I would have thought even David Cameron could see that.

David Cameron is in the same mould i'm afraid
smarmy arrogant and stupid

This was from Michael Rosen today

If any Secretary of State for Education was really interested in education they would encourage and support the study of pedagogy. This would be informed by what pupils say and do about learning, teachers' own experience and what researchers discovered through experiments conducted over a decent stretch of time ie 'longitudinal studies'. All these announcements and headlines are in their own different ways, ways of avoiding talking about the hard stuff: how best to help very different children to learn.

[teamsaint]

No
because it's a dangerous fraud (like mr Gove) that will result in people who are really ill dying

Some people (and their children) need protecting from their own stupidity
and the children that many of us work with need protecting from this dipstick

You think its a dangerous fraud.

Some people , including some very smart people, (including a considerable number of doctors), don't.

Are you not worried about your own assertion that " people need protecting from their own stupidity"?

(this forum is boring without the fundamentalists, so I thought i would try to liven things up. !)

Who is to decide how this is done? politicians? quangos? the markets? "experts"?
Very dangerous territory.

People do need protecting from gove, but he is imposing himself. Nobody imposes homeopathic remedies.

Oh, and conventional medicine (as dispensed by the NHS)also results in medical failures, unnecessary deaths,inappropriate and imposed treatments etc .
It failed me utterly.

[eighthobstruction]

The fact that you can fail it in itself means it's not what is required - it was never intended for 'measuring pupils' progress' but as a means of keeping the academically weaker pupils out of your school.

That way you can continue to maintain the 'high standards' for which the private sector is famous.

That's exactly what I thought the answer might be Jean....Mr Gove you do talk irrelevant codswallop; unthought out and whimsical....

NB....once again, I didn't hear any of these obvious points being made on BBC....

[MrGongGong]

You think its a dangerous fraud.

Placebos are fine for people who aren't really ill or who have conditions (like most things) will get better of their own accord
but there is NO evidence for homeopathy being any better
YES, so called "conventional" medicine doesn't work for everyone
BUT without it I, and many others, would simply be dead

I'm not worried at all about the idea that people need protecting from their own stupidity as long as we trust those who protect
MR Gove can't be trusted
Neither can the dangerous idiots who think you can avoid malaria with a sugar pill

The healthiest woman I used to know died of breast cancer, she was a lifelong vegetarian, did 2 hours of Yoga every day and exuded positivity without being a pain in the arse about it (and believe me, I should know, I used to live in TOTNES :-) ).... BUT , in spite of surgery, homeopathic treatments and everything else , She died... That's what happens sometimes, people get ill and there is no reason.
As the parent of someone with Autism i'm very aware of the shite that goes around about medicine and the spurious connections that people make between things.

Though on second thoughts you might be right!
After all I didn't get a kidney tumour until after I discovered Xenakis
so 'logically' if you want to be well, avoid Xenakis


BUT that's all a bit OT
What Gove needs (in the manner of the Ofsted report on Music Hubs "What Hubs Must Do") is a swift kicking

[jean]

That's exactly what I thought the answer might be Jean...

I think what I said is true, in spite of ardcarp's

The Common Entrance exam is taken by 13-year-olds at the end of their Prep Schools and the papers are marked by the Public School they wish to go to. So if you want to go to a top academic one you have to do better than if you go to a less academic one. At least, that's how it used to be. So it's not necessarily a 'pass or fail' situation.

All that means is that different institutions set their own pass mark at different places on the scale.

The exam does not, and is not designed to, monitor pupils' progress.

[teamsaint]

Another time, another place.
But I don't trust NICE, just for starters.

[ardcarp]

All that means is that different institutions set their own pass mark at different places on the scale.

The exam does not, and is not designed to, monitor pupils' progress.

I agree with you entirely Jean. I was trying to point out the total impracticality (lunacy in fact) of foisting Common Entrance onto the state system I'm nothing to do with the world of education, but from my armchair I observe what happened/happens to my children/grandchildren. These days there is altogether too much assessment, appraisal, monitoring of progress, etc, etc. At a parents' evening the teacher is usually glued to a screen upon which mystical hierloglyphs are supposed to indicate a child's progress. It's all box-ticking for Off**** of course. I've seen the effects of inspirational, charismatic teaching upon children. Alas this is becoming a rarity, it seems, and we are in the grip of a process-driven regime.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Under G***, it's become a matter of the educational principle of "filling the pot" rather than "lighting the flame".

For a control-freak politician like himself, it's the ideal solution. No-one should be allowed to think.

[teamsaint]

I agree with you entirely Jean. I was trying to point out the total impracticality (lunacy in fact) of foisting Common Entrance onto the state system I'm nothing to do with the world of education, but from my armchair I observe what happened/happens to my children/grandchildren. These days there is altogether too much assessment, appraisal, monitoring of progress, etc, etc. At a parents' evening the teacher is usually glued to a screen upon which mystical hierloglyphs are supposed to indicate a child's progress. It's all box-ticking for Off**** of course. I've seen the effects of inspirational, charismatic teaching upon children. Alas this is becoming a rarity, it seems, and we are in the grip of a process-driven regime.

a whole new education paradigm is required. I'm afraid that education comprises a weeding out process, designed to decide (mostly via the wallet) who is going to get to the "best" universities.

Inspiration, real skills, love of the arts , interest in how our world works,curiosity about how it is run, and so on are more or less off limits.

The system drives many good teachers away. Putting square pegs in round holes, or endlessly pushing kids through pointless hoops is not much of a way to make a living.

Hope this bloke gets another chance.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2014/02/01/wolverhampton-teacher-sacked-for-shooting-pupil-with-pellet-gun/