The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

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  • Flosshilde
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 7988

    Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
    Thanks JimD

    I can't see much in that, that would be a threat to British society. And if the Islamic schools are doing the equivalent, I think they should be left to get on with running the schools as they wish. I'm sure I've missed something.
    So entirely predictable. I would have thought that its view that homosexuality is a "learned behaviour" and its teaching of creationism instead of evolution. contravenes Gove's 'British values'. It's not a question of 'British society' (which includes Muslims, of course).

    Comment

    • Beef Oven!
      Ex-member
      • Sep 2013
      • 18147

      Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
      So entirely predictable. I would have thought that its view that homosexuality is a "learned behaviour" and its teaching of creationism instead of evolution. contravenes Gove's 'British values'. It's not a question of 'British society' (which includes Muslims, of course).
      I'm not sure that its view on homosexuality and creationism are show-stoppers.

      To me its view on homosexuality is wrong, pure and simple, but as an agnostic, I'm unsure about how the world became the world.

      But I don't see how either of these things could be a threat to British society.

      And for the avoidance of doubt, when I said "And if the Islamic schools are doing the equivalent, I think they should be left to get on with running the schools as they wish" I meant the Islamic schools should be left alone. You do of course realise that the Christian school ceased trading 14 years ago.

      Please leave the ''so entirely predictable" stuff out. You might jump to conclusions and think I'm predictable and I might think that you are a prick. But it's best left out of these discussions.

      Comment

      • teamsaint
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 25190

        Is believing in how some people interperet and teach Darwin's theories a british value?

        Is intolerance of other peoples beliefs?
        I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

        I am not a number, I am a free man.

        Comment

        • Flosshilde
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 7988

          Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
          I'm not sure that its view on homosexuality and creationism are show-stoppers.

          To me its view on homosexuality is wrong, pure and simple, but as an agnostic, I'm unsure about how the world became the world.

          But I don't see how either of these things could be a threat to British society.
          It's not a question of a 'threat to British society'; it's a matter of upholding Gove's idea of 'British Values', which include "mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs", something the Academies sponsored by fundamentalist Christian groups clearly fail on.

          What you, personally, believe is irrelevant - it's about what the schools teach and what Gove believes are 'fundamental British values'.

          Comment

          • amateur51

            Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
            I'm not sure that its view on homosexuality and creationism are show-stoppers.
            Does the poster accept that the world is a mere 6,000 years old, as creationists teach?

            Sadly the poster's views on equal marriage are all too well-known.

            Comment

            • Beef Oven!
              Ex-member
              • Sep 2013
              • 18147

              Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
              It's not a question of a 'threat to British society'; it's a matter of upholding Gove's idea of 'British Values', which include "mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs", something the Academies sponsored by fundamentalist Christian groups clearly fail on.

              What you, personally, believe is irrelevant - it's about what the schools teach and what Gove believes are 'fundamental British values'.
              The Islamic schools, according to some (including Gove) are a threat to 'British society'. That's what this is all about. It doesn't matter how Gove subsequently interprets British values for us.

              What I believe is central to my beliefs, if you'll pardon the tautology. So it's highly relevant.

              Comment

              • Beef Oven!
                Ex-member
                • Sep 2013
                • 18147

                Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                Is believing in how some people interperet and teach Darwin's theories a british value?

                Is intolerance of other peoples beliefs?
                That went over my head a bit ts , but it sounds interesting. Could you expand, or maybe put it another way?

                Comment

                • teamsaint
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 25190

                  Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                  That went over my head a bit ts , but it sounds interesting. Could you expand, or maybe put it another way?
                  Er um, I'll try, but it depended on my understanding that it was being suggested that teaching Darwinism instead of , for instance creationism, or some other set of beliefs , would be a British value. if that isnt the start point, then ignore what I posted.

                  if this IS a start point, I was just trying to point out that beliefs are notoriously fickle and changeable, and need great care, especially when being relayed to young minds.

                  So, Darwin wrote some important theories. How these might be interpreted and passed on , and how teachers deal with them, is tricky to say the least. I wonder how many classrom Junior school teachers have anything like a solid understanding of Darwin's work? (And I ask that respectfully).
                  Consider ones own beliefs 5, 10, 20, 30 years ago, and how they have changed.

                  As to intolerance of other peoples beliefs, well, that just follows on from the main point.
                  I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                  I am not a number, I am a free man.

                  Comment

                  • Beef Oven!
                    Ex-member
                    • Sep 2013
                    • 18147

                    Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                    Er um, I'll try, but it depended on my understanding that it was being suggested that teaching Darwinism instead of , for instance creationism, or some other set of beliefs , would be a British value. if that isnt the start point, then ignore what I posted.

                    if this IS a start point, I was just trying to point out that beliefs are notoriously fickle and changeable, and need great care, especially when being relayed to young minds.

                    So, Darwin wrote some important theories. How these might be interpreted and passed on , and how teachers deal with them, is tricky to say the least. I wonder how many classrom Junior school teachers have anything like a solid understanding of Darwin's work? (And I ask that respectfully).
                    Consider ones own beliefs 5, 10, 20, 30 years ago, and how they have changed.

                    As to intolerance of other peoples beliefs, well, that just follows on from the main point.
                    Thanks, I've got it.

                    I think that the problem starts when people confuse beliefs with truths or facts, if you get my drift.

                    Comment

                    • teamsaint
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 25190

                      Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                      Thanks, I've got it.

                      I think that the problem starts when people confuse beliefs with truths or facts, if you get my drift.
                      I wish I had said it like that .

                      Although truth and facts arent always easy to pin down.......
                      I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                      I am not a number, I am a free man.

                      Comment

                      • Beef Oven!
                        Ex-member
                        • Sep 2013
                        • 18147

                        Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                        Although truth and facts arent always easy to pin down.......
                        But you got my drift!

                        Yes, truth, facts, reality - all socially constructed, aren't they?

                        Comment

                        • teamsaint
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 25190

                          Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                          But you got my drift!

                          Yes, truth, facts, reality - all socially constructed, aren't they?
                          Ah, there you go, trying to catch folks out with your fancy words.......:)
                          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                          I am not a number, I am a free man.

                          Comment

                          • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                            Late member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 9173

                            young Gove on strike
                            According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

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                            • MrGongGong
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 18357

                              After starting out as a journalist, Michael Gove became Conservative MP for Surrey Heath in 2005, standing down in the 2024 general election.

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                              • P. G. Tipps
                                Full Member
                                • Jun 2014
                                • 2978

                                Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo View Post
                                Seemingly backed by Riccardo Chailly ... ?

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