The wisdom of Mr. Gove.

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  • MrGongGong
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 18357

    Star of 'Educating Yorkshire' offers unflattering dedication as he picks up the award for best documentary series, while Idris Elba and Olivia Colman named best actor and actress

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    • Serial_Apologist
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 37561

      Bottom of the class!

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      • MrGongGong
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 18357

        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
        Bottom of the class!
        Some of the pompous responses are worthy of our old mate Simon :laugh:

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        • teamsaint
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 25190

          more insanity from our control obsessed " leaders".

          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

          I am not a number, I am a free man.

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          • Serial_Apologist
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 37561

            Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
            more insanity from our control obsessed " leaders".

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...w-9233687.html
            I would think the unholy combination of play-deprivation and thwarted over-expectations will continue to provide the unhappy divided nation of people at each other's throats this government wants to keep enslaved and in the pockets of the rich and powerful, TS.

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            • teamsaint
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 25190

              Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
              I would think the unholy combination of play-deprivation and thwarted over-expectations will continue to provide the unhappy divided nation of people at each other's throats this government wants to keep enslaved and in the pockets of the rich and powerful, TS.
              Very true, and very sad, S_A.

              One thing that keeps me optimistic is that many people do see through this control obsesssion.
              Vox pop sites like footy forums are a cause for hope, despite some of the daily mail sentiments that also get expressed.

              Nothing is for ever.
              Last edited by teamsaint; 05-04-14, 16:51.
              I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

              I am not a number, I am a free man.

              Comment

              • Eine Alpensinfonie
                Host
                • Nov 2010
                • 20569

                Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                more insanity from our control obsessed " leaders".

                http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...w-9233687.html
                Complete insanity! The Foundation Curriculum is based upon a template created by Frau Alpensinfonie in the late 90s. Unlike the new insane proposal, this one was based on play, and what was appropriate for the age and development of the children. Force feeding has long-term repercussions.

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                • MrGongGong
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 18357

                  Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                  Complete insanity! The Foundation Curriculum is based upon a template created by Frau Alpensinfonie in the late 90s. Unlike the new insane proposal, this one was based on play, and what was appropriate for the age and development of the children. Force feeding has long-term repercussions.
                  Indeed

                  How many so called "successful" students do you encounter who get half way through their degree course and find that they are bewildered by why they are there and WHAT it's all about anyway ?

                  And

                  how many times do I have to say to music students that it's called PLAYING for a reason ?

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                  • Anna

                    Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                    I would think the unholy combination of play-deprivation ....
                    Children learn through play, clapping rhymes, counting songs, etc., and I cannot think of anything more ridiculous to try to enforce some 'formal' education on a class of two year olds (some of which will have far more advanced verbal skills than others, as children do, this is normal) Surely the solution is to support parents, not to remove the child? As an aside, reading that these 'poor and disadvantaged children' come from families where the income is £16,000 and below, if I were such an economically deprived parent I would feel mightily narked that the mere fact of that monetary poverty meant it was assumed my child wasn't receiving the necessary nurturing and encouragement from me! (I wonder if Gove et al have ever been hands-on parents with fractious two year olds?)

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                    • jean
                      Late member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7100

                      It all depends on what you mean by formal education, though.

                      My sister-in-law is deputy head of a primary school in a very deprived area. A proportion of her intake in reception class every year cannot hold a pen when they arrive. They are also not toilet-trained, cannot tie their shoelaces, have poor verbal skills because they've been in front of a TV all day and nobody talks to them, and some cannot even walk properly because they're kept strapped into buggies.

                      Of course parents should be able to teach their children all these skills and given the support to understand how important they are, but failing that, a good nursery would pick up the pieces. I think the point was that some nurseries were not doing it, and school-based nurseries could be relied upon to perform the task better.

                      (And remember this was a suggestion from OFSTED, not Gove.)

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                      • teamsaint
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 25190

                        I would imagine that high level Ofsted officials rather like their well paid jobs out of the front line, and are smart enough to know which way the political wind is blowing.

                        Jean's point about five year old with low level life skills is still one about the social structure rather than school education.
                        I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                        I am not a number, I am a free man.

                        Comment

                        • jean
                          Late member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 7100

                          It's about both, and it needs to be tackled by as many means as can be thought of.

                          Even Sure Start, so disgracefully truncated by this government, only reached the parents who were ready to be reached.

                          .
                          Last edited by jean; 06-04-14, 16:03.

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                          • Eine Alpensinfonie
                            Host
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 20569

                            Originally posted by jean View Post
                            It all depends on what you mean by formal education, though.

                            My sister-in-law is deputy head of a primary school in a very deprived area. A proportion of her intake in reception class every year cannot hold a pen when they arrive. They are also not toilet-trained, cannot tie their shoelaces, have poor verbal skills because they've been in front of a TV all day and nobody talks to them, and some cannot even walk properly because they're kept strapped into buggies.
                            There are different issues here. I couldn't tie my shoelaces before I went to school. I couldn't hold a pencil either. But I was ready to learn because I had learnt to play. My mother was a teacher, but hadn't hot-housed me.
                            Neither had she strapped me in a buggy with the TV (though were the only ones in the street to own one).

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                            • teamsaint
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 25190

                              Originally posted by jean View Post
                              It's about both, and it needs to be tackled by as many means as can be thought of.

                              Even Sure Start, so disgracefully truncated by this government, only reached the parents who were ready to be reached.

                              .

                              Probably a fair comment, but I worry that its "cart before the horse " stuff.

                              Until those in the top 10% (1 %, 0.1% ?) have a real interest in change , I fear things will stay broadly the same. 20% plus leaving 12 years of full time education illiterate and innumerate, a big group at the bottom of society thoroughly unengaged with the rest of their country (let alone the wider world), a big chunk of the middle class working like nutters just to buy a small home,and so on and so on.
                              Last edited by teamsaint; 06-04-14, 18:09.
                              I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                              I am not a number, I am a free man.

                              Comment

                              • jean
                                Late member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 7100

                                Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                                There are different issues here. I couldn't tie my shoelaces before I went to school. I couldn't hold a pencil either. But I was ready to learn because I had learnt to play. My mother was a teacher, but hadn't hot-housed me.
                                Neither had she strapped me in a buggy with the TV (though were the only ones in the street to own one).
                                Miss out the shoelaces, then. They're not essential to the argument.

                                Just think about the rest.

                                Any child multiply deprived to the extent I've outlined is going to be seriously disadvantaged throughout their school career.

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