Lib Dems - the party we can trust???

[MrGongGong]

I do understand that 'No one, politician or not, can be depended on to keep their 'promises', 100%' and Mr Clegg has given us a very demonstration of that, Unfortunately for him and for the LIbDems specifically, and possibly for politicians generally, Mr Clegg de,omstrated that when a politician makes a very specific pledge targetted at the votes of a specific group of people and beyond, he cannot by trusted. He was just trying to buy votes, votes that he may not have had had he not made that pledge. And if he had not had those votes, he may well not have been a viable coalition partner. It is that lofty but casual way of treating people's votes that ordinary punters can't stomach.

And they STILL don't understand why so many young people who were first time voters are STILL outraged at the way in which he behaved. To those young people (including my own children) the 'apology' he made was fake and phony.
Folks might be "tired" of it and want to "move on" BUT the same young voters understand that people who say those things are simply trying to cover up an inexcusable betrayal.
Sadly the Lib Dems come out of this as wannabe Tories = Fake
which is a sad betrayal of long history of Liberalism :-(

[Beef Oven!]

And they STILL don't understand why so many young people who were first time voters are STILL outraged at the way in which he behaved. To those young people (including my own children) the 'apology' he made was fake and phony.
Folks might be "tired" of it and want to "move on" BUT the same young voters understand that people who say those things are simply trying to cover up an inexcusable betrayal.
Sadly the Lib Dems come out of this as wannabe Tories = Fake
which is a sad betrayal of long history of Liberalism :-(

Agreed. Clegg learnt how to betray from this wonderful young Tory

What he says in this YouTube video is utterly astonishing.

[amateur51]

And they STILL don't understand why so many young people who were first time voters are STILL outraged at the way in which he behaved. To those young people (including my own children) the 'apology' he made was fake and phony.
Folks might be "tired" of it and want to "move on" BUT the same young voters understand that people who say those things are simply trying to cover up an inexcusable betrayal.
Sadly the Lib Dems come out of this as wannabe Tories = Fake
which is a sad betrayal of long history of Liberalism :-(

Well you can't blame young people for that. Ally them to Labour Party supporters who have always muttered the mantra "Never Trust A Liberal" and their chances of a coalition with Labour doesn't look too appetising either.

I expect politicians to be unpleasantly power-hungry but it's what they do with that power when they have it that proves the real test. And it isn't too impressive.

Meanwhile The Red Eds' latest Big Idea is a return to the upper 50% tax bracket - what will be the impact of that on the deficit, I wonder? Whatever happened to the future of Trident? Let's de-couple from The Special Relationship with USA & get ourselves firmly under the EU/NATO umbrella.

And PLEASE let's disestablish the Church of England.

Sorry, wildly OT - just giving Mr Clegg and the Red Eds some ideas.

[amateur51]

Agreed. Clegg learnt how to betray from this wonderful young Tory

What he says in this YouTube video is utterly astonishing.

By the same argument, we'd have to have multi-referenda around our relationship with USA as it spirals away from our favour ever faster.

[MrGongGong]

Agreed. Clegg learnt how to betray from this wonderful young Tory

What he says in this YouTube video is utterly astonishing.

THEY ALL LIE

and your mate Nige is just another duplicitous liar


(must go, as there seem to be 1,000 Bulgarians trying to get into my front room...... I told them we were full, but would they listen ? )

[Beef Oven!]

(must go, as there seem to be 1,000 Bulgarians trying to get into my front room...... I told them we were full, but would they listen ? )

If you were a real Kipper, you'd be one of the weird ones that they have. good job you're just a UKIP obsessee! But do let us know when you finally join the UKIP, we'll all need to run for cover!

[jean]

Agreed. Clegg learnt how to betray from this wonderful young Tory

What he says in this YouTube video is utterly astonishing.

To be fair to DC - not something I often find myself saying - the referendum he was originally in favout=r of was on the Lisbon treaty, before that had been ratified.

What Kippers want now is a referendum on the question of whether we leave Europe altogether, and even DC knows that's far too complex an issue to be decided by a simple yes/no vote.

(Actually, the Lisbon Treaty was, too.)

[french frank]

Sadly the Lib Dems come out of this as wannabe Tories = Fake
which is a sad betrayal of long history of Liberalism :-(

Well, the political choice is Tory government with/without the LibDems (and maybe with UKIP) or Labour government with/without the LibDems. Be careful what you wish for when you cheer over the annihilation of the LibDems. No skin off my nose, and the defeated MPs will get other jobs - and you'll pay them handsomely to resettle themselves.

For those who didn't attempt an answer to the question: at the end of the Labour term, unemployment was at 8%; it's now 7.1%. But who cares, anyway?

I have a friend who retired from being a councillor after 12 years. After much longer pounding the streets canvassing, he reckoned most people managed one idée fixe at any moment about politics/politicians which was enough to decide their views and voting intentions. They didn't welcome any additional information that might necessitate revising their opinions, since most of them weren't interested enough in politics to actually do something except vote, or deliberately NOT vote.

Just saying ...

[Serial_Apologist]

For those who didn't attempt an answer to the question: at the end of the Labour term, unemployment was at 8%; it's now 7.1%. But who cares, anyway?

Well one should care because those figures cry out for more nuanced appraisal - see "recovery???" thread.

[MrGongGong]

Well, the political choice is Tory government with/without the LibDems (and maybe with UKIP) or Labour government with/without the LibDems. Be careful what you wish for when you cheer over the annihilation of the LibDems. No skin off my nose, and the defeated MPs will get other jobs - and you'll pay them handsomely to resettle themselves.

For those who didn't attempt an answer to the question: at the end of the Labour term, unemployment was at 8%; it's now 7.1%. But who cares, anyway?

I have a friend who retired from being a councillor after 12 years. After much longer pounding the streets canvassing, he reckoned most people managed one idée fixe at any moment about politics/politicians which was enough to decide their views and voting intentions. They didn't welcome any additional information that might necessitate revising their opinions, since most of them weren't interested enough in politics to actually do something except vote, or deliberately NOT vote.

Just saying ...

Which maybe amounts to saying?
whatever we vote for we are f*cked

Given that there's hardly a fag paper between them it's probably better to ignore the whole sham

Wot Russell Brand said? (who normally annoys me so much that I can't stand it !)

[amateur51]

Well, the political choice is Tory government with/without the LibDems (and maybe with UKIP) or Labour government with/without the LibDems. Be careful what you wish for when you cheer over the annihilation of the LibDems. No skin off my nose, and the defeated MPs will get other jobs - and you'll pay them handsomely to resettle themselves.

For those who didn't attempt an answer to the question: at the end of the Labour term, unemployment was at 8%; it's now 7.1%. But who cares, anyway?

I have a friend who retired from being a councillor after 12 years. After much longer pounding the streets canvassing, he reckoned most people managed one idée fixe at any moment about politics/politicians which was enough to decide their views and voting intentions. They didn't welcome any additional information that might necessitate revising their opinions, since most of them weren't interested enough in politics to actually do something except vote, or deliberately NOT vote.

Just saying ...

We've been here before, many, many, many, many, many times.

Let's get the business of NOTA (None of The Above) sorted in all parliamentary elections vote which is to be counted & reported as part of the result. And where NOTA vote exceeds a certain %, the poll has to be rerun within a certain time during which the candidates rethink their 'offer'. Yes I know tis would put the cost up but it might also force politicians to listen to the electorate at the stage of formulating their 'offer', rather than on the re-run.

[amateur51]

Well one should care because those figures cry out for more nuanced appraisal - see "recovery???" thread.

A good thread that one, agreed S_A

[french frank]

the poll has to be rerun within a certain time during which the candidates rethink their 'offer'. Yes I know tis would put the cost up but it might also force politicians to listen to the electorate at the stage of formulating their 'offer', rather than on the re-run.

Good idea, then the politicians could say, "Tell us what you would like us to do - and we'll promise to do it."

A bit like pinning your birthday present wish list on the fridge door for the benefit of rest of the family. But not much like it.

[amateur51]

Good idea, then the politicians could say, "Tell us what you would like us to do - and we'll promise to do it."

A bit like pinning your birthday present wish list on the fridge door for the benefit of rest of the family. But not much like it.

I was waiting for that. They'd only do this once because we would also have created a system of recall for constituency politicians not felt to be doing their jobs properly.

It's time for a transformation in the relationship between politicians and those who elect them.

As Beecham is said to have remarked when taking a piece of ballet music at double the rehearsed speed, "That'll make the buggers jump!" :biggrin:


They have asked for it

[MrGongGong]

It's time for a transformation in the relationship between politicians and those who elect them.

You mean they might stop pretending that they 'represent' their constituents ? Blimey that's far too radical for any of them :-(