Lib Dems - the party we can trust???

[Beef Oven!]

I'm afraid I don't believe in simplistic analyses of "the basic British political character" as if this was unvarying. Britain has changed enormously since the war and attitudes have changed correspondingly (compare the routine and open racism in the 1950s with the much greater tolerance and acceptance of a multiracial society now). Studies which look at what people who vote a certain way feel is important to them do imv go a long way towards explaining the appeal of a particular party, and the demographics are useful in analysing what kinds of people are likely to be its supporters.

It's right that you point out that 'the basic British character' is not 'unvarying' (not that I said it was).

But the analysis is not simplistic. Nordlinger's analysis is simple, but not 'simplistic'. But don't believe it if you don't want to.

People don't change over night, and UKIP is appealing to that rump of the British character that is extant. As I said, demography is not on UKIP's side, meaning that the changes in attitude that you refer to are indeed real and will no doubt form part of the next 'British political character'.

I'm not sure that attitudes have changed enormously, corresponding to a changed post war Britain. Your example of routine and open racism in the 1950s, compared to an acceptance of multiracial society, is comparing two different things: people saying what they believe' with people savvy enough not to be routine and open about it! Maybe things haven't changed as much as you think.

Superficial pseudo-scientific psephological 'studies' are mildly interesting, and if you enjoy them, fill yer boots!

[aeolium]

People don't change over night, and UKIP is appealing to that rump of the British character that is extant. As I said, demography is not on UKIP's side, meaning that the changes in attitude that you refer to are indeed real and will no doubt form part of the next 'British political character'.

I'm not sure that attitudes have changed enormously, corresponding to a changed post war Britain. Your example of routine and open racism in the 1950s, compared to an acceptance of multiracial society, is comparing two different things: people saying what they believe' with people savvy enough not to be routine and open about it! Maybe things haven't changed as much as you think.

Superficial pseudo-scientific psephological 'studies' are mildly interesting, and if you enjoy them, fill yer boots!

But the change in attitudes has followed actual changes in society and generational changes, with a lot of interracial marriage - as you pointed out. That's bound to make a difference, as new generations have grown up in a multiracial society (unlike the generation which grew up around or just after the war).

You're right that I'd rather look at recent studies that go into some detail about political attitudes than rely upon generalisations about the "British political character" in the 1970s, which in any case wouldn't explain why there are still plenty of people from the working-class - a majority - who don't vote UKIP.

[MrGongGong]

Demography is not on UKIP's side, and the window of opportunity for them will close before too soon.

HA HA HA

Like I always thought
Pretending NOT to be what one really is only lasts a short time unless you really are a skilled "method" actor

It's Strangeloves arm syndrome innit

[amateur51]

Yes, perhaps you would expound your different view on the appeal of UKIP?

I'd be quite happy to talk about the apparent religious belief held by at least one UKIP person that equal weddings have resulted in meteorological events of recent weeks.

There are plenty of things to talk about regarding UKIP other than race y'know - they have 'unusual' views about many things.

[Beef Oven!]

HA HA HA

Like I always thought
Pretending NOT to be what one really is only lasts a short time unless you really are a skilled "method" actor

It's Strangeloves arm syndrome innit

Don't be too pleased, too quickly MrGG, demographic changes take time!

[MrGongGong]

Don't be too pleased, too quickly MrGG, demographic changes take time!

You mean the "window" when people don't realise that the kippers really are bigots is likely to shut at any time.

[Beef Oven!]

You mean the "window" when people don't realise that the kippers really are bigots is likely to shut at any time.

Ha Ha! Life's so simple in GongGong world! If you don't agree with him you're a bigot!

[MrGongGong]

Ha Ha! Life's so simple in GongGong world! If you don't agree with him you're a bigot!

Yeah right .... don't be a simple minded arse

You aren't REALLY suggesting that the kippers are a bigot free zone ?
Farago is a lying bastard about his supposed train journey, he simply is so insecure that the sound of someone speaking words he doesn't understand makes him nervous...... sad and pathetic

the kippers are stuffed full of bigots, YOU seem to be the exception
but why on earth do you take any of these dickwads seriously ?

[Beef Oven!]

Yeah right .... don't be a simple minded arse

You aren't REALLY suggesting that the kippers are a bigot free zone ?
Farago is a lying bastard about his supposed train journey

the kippers are stuffed full of bigots, YOU seem to be the exception

So if one doesn't agree with you, one must be a bigot or a simple mixed arse? Glad you've cleared that up for us.

[MrGongGong]

So if one doesn't agree with you, one must be a bigot or a simple mixed arse? Glad you've cleared that up for us.

You seem to have a problem with the English language this evening
What I said was the the Kippers ARE bigoted
not that anyone who disagrees with ME is bigoted
and that you were simple minded (sing along chaps) to say that it's one thing or the other
BUT I'm still puzzled why you go along with this political shite anyway

I think Alvin Lucier is a god amongst men
many people don't agree
some are bigots some aren't

Hope that clears it up for you ?

[Beef Oven!]

BUT I'm still puzzled why you go along with this political shite anyway

But you've already answered that anyway, haven't you? It's because if one doesn't fit in with the world according to MrGG, one is either a bigot or a simple minded arse...HoHo HaHa!!!

[MrGongGong]

But you've already answered that anyway, haven't you? It's because if one doesn't fit in with the world according to MrGG, one is either a bigot or a simple minded arse...HoHo HaHa!!!

Oh dear
You really have fallen for the false duality nonsense haven't you

[french frank]

Politics resembles religion in that most people who have firm beliefs think they are right and any other viewpoint is wrong; and they base all their arguments/discussion on that primary assumption. Don't they? Others may be 'right' only according to the extent to which their views are perceived to overlap with their own.

Those who find no common ground with anyone could be said to be either a) bigots or b) improbably infallible in their views ...

[MrGongGong]

Politics resembles religion in that most people who have firm beliefs think they are right and any other viewpoint is wrong; and they base all their arguments/discussion on that primary assumption. Don't they? Others may be 'right' only according to the extent to which their views are perceived to overlap with their own.

Those who find no common ground with anyone could be said to be either a) bigots or b) improbably infallible in their views ...

Hummm

Surely the "problem" with politics is that all the supposed differences between parties are, in fact, part of the same thing?
Thinking that because one objects to one thing that one is automatically in favour of the thing which is seen to be it's opposite is a rather widespread belief IMV. What those involved in politics find hard to understand is that for much of the time it's not a question of "left" or "right" at all.


It's the misapplication of competitiveness again.

[Beef Oven!]

Politics resembles religion in that most people who have firm beliefs think they are right and any other viewpoint is wrong; and they base all their arguments/discussion on that primary assumption. Don't they? Others may be 'right' only according to the extent to which their views are perceived to overlap with their own.

Those who find no common ground with anyone could be said to be either a) bigots or b) improbably infallible in their views ...

Agreed. And no-one is exempt.