Tom Daley's In Love ...

[Richard Barrett]

Freedom of speech should be accompanied by social responsibility

... just like any other kind of freedom, it means nothing unless it respects the freedom of others, which in this instance is not the case.

[ahinton]

also believe that if people join a club they should obey the rules. All clubs have rules. If there weren't rules there would be no clubs? If people don't like the rules the answer is simple. If they can't change the rules they should leave the club!

"I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member" (or words to that or similar effect) has been widely attributed to Marx (Groucho of that ilk, that is), though the accuracy and provenance has for some time been in doubt.

[P. G. Tipps]

The problem with the club called the Catholic Church is that it feels that its club rules should apply to everybody, whether they are members or not.

Well whatever you think it 'feels' it is clearly not the case that its rules apply to non-members so that's just a convenient distraction from the main issue. In fact, the politically-correct ruling liberal elite in both government and the media have much more propagandist control on thought and speech today than any religious grouping.

Freedom of speech should be accompanied by social responsibility, and that applies to cardinals as well as us lower mortals. The straightforward argument is that bigotry against all minorities should be opposed. I grant you that taking a stand against sheer stupidity is a difficult task, but it has to be done, even if some fools have a rather uncertain grip on what they believe or do not believe, as seems to be the case here.

Of course freedom of speech requires social responsibility and that, again, should work both (or every) ways. I can assure you that Catholics in the UK and elsewhere know all about 'bigotry' and they, incidentally, are in a clear minority as well. Protecting the rights of minorities doesn't just mean the rights of gays and other very noisy high-profile groups!

You describe some Catholics as 'fools' and talk about 'taking a stand against sheer stupidity'. Nothing better illustrates some of the arrogant and intolerant attitudes so prevalent in secular social 'liberalism' today.

So no more lectures here about 'bigotry' please!

[Richard Barrett]

Of course freedom of speech requires social responsibility

... and social responsibility means not treating other people as inferior or otherwise beyond the pale, which surely is particularly reprehensible when the person involved is a Christian cleric. Leaving aside the fact that the whole eucharist business was invented after his death, ask yourself this: who would Jesus have refused communion to? I'm not a Christian myself but it seems to me that the obvious answer is "nobody".

[Flosshilde]

I am very firmly on the side of freedom of speech

Are you tslking about your freedom of speech? I don't see that it's being curtailed in any way. But if you talk a lot of blithering nonsense you must expect it to be challenged (even if it's not nonsense, you can't complain if people disagree with it, since you seem to do nothing else yourself).

[Ferretfancy]

Well whatever you think it 'feels' it is clearly not the case that its rules apply to non-members so that's just a convenient distraction from the main issue. In fact, the politically-correct ruling liberal elite in both government and the media have much more propagandist control on thought and speech today than any religious grouping.



Of course freedom of speech requires social responsibility and that, again, should work both (or every) ways. I can assure you that Catholics in the UK and elsewhere know all about 'bigotry' and they, incidentally, are in a clear minority as well. Protecting the rights of minorities doesn't just mean the rights of gays and other very noisy high-profile groups!

You describe some Catholics as 'fools' and talk about 'taking a stand against sheer stupidity'. Nothing better illustrates some of the arrogant and intolerant attitudes so prevalent in secular social 'liberalism' today.

So no more lectures here about 'bigotry' please!

Nowhere did I classify catholics as fools, although no doubt there are some in their ranks. You could say that I was aiming at a target a little nearer home.

[Flosshilde]

Hi Flossie, it's about that Christmas cake that you recently put in the oven ... how's it doing?

It came out a long time ago.

[P. G. Tipps]

Nowhere did I classify catholics as fools, although no doubt there are some in their ranks. You could say that I was aiming at a target a little nearer home.

Come on, you could say anything you want, but you are now either wisely backtracking or, maybe as a sign of sheer desperation, getting very personal indeed! :-)

[P. G. Tipps]

It came out a long time ago.

Very good, Flossie ... ho ho ho!!

[P. G. Tipps]

Are you tslking about your freedom of speech? I don't see that it's being curtailed in any way. But if you talk a lot of blithering nonsense you must expect it to be challenged (even if it's not nonsense, you can't complain if people disagree with it, since you seem to do nothing else yourself).

Eh ...?

[P. G. Tipps]

"I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member" (or words to that or similar effect) has been widely attributed to Marx (Groucho of that ilk, that is), though the accuracy and provenance has for some time been in doubt.

It does sound very much like Groucho, ahinton ... and he was certainly a lot more fun than Karl!

[amateur51]

It does sound very much like Groucho, ahinton ... and he was certainly a lot more fun than Karl!

Nice to see scottyTipps paying an unacknowledged tribute to Ted Ray from an edition of Does The Team Think? from around 1958.

[P. G. Tipps]

Nice to see scottyTipps paying an unacknowledged tribute to Ted Ray from an edition of Does The Team Think? from around 1958.

My, you were seven years old then, scottyTipps ... what a memory!

BTW, I rather liked the wit of Ted Ray ... it was genuinely 'instant' which I discovered when I once bumped into him many years ago on a golf course near Glasgow!!