Poppies and the "Heroes Industry" ?

[amateur51]

Spot on, Beefy!! <thumbs up>

It's all tiresomely predictable, isn't it? <yawn>

Poor Beefy, now that scotty's absented himself, Baldrick has no-one to tag along with.

[teamsaint]

Is it like a Vegan Butcher
or a "Christian Soldier" ?

Bit like one of these guys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWelcf2oTo

[Richard Barrett]

Is it like a Vegan Butcher
or a "Christian Soldier" ?

or "modern classical music"?

[Flosshilde]

A while back (was it really just yesterday?) we were discussing the meaning of the Poppy, & why people wore it. I should have introduced the Apprentice Boys of Derry lodge in Glasgow, who decided that their march to the Cenotaph should pass several pubs in the East End which were popular with Irish Republicans (until they were on the brink of having the march banned). I wonder what their reasons for wearing a poppy were, & what they thought it meant?

[Mr Pee]

I am proud to say that I am playing on this recording:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1NsMaspwOg

Lest we forget.

[Padraig]

A while back (was it really just yesterday?) we were discussing the meaning of the Poppy, & why people wore it. I should have introduced the Apprentice Boys of Derry lodge in Glasgow, who decided that their march to the Cenotaph should pass several pubs in the East End which were popular with Irish Republicans (until they were on the brink of having the march banned). I wonder what their reasons for wearing a poppy were, & what they thought it meant?

I'm sure the march went off peacefully, Flosshilde, or we would have heard. Compare the situation referred to in message 92 above. I'm reasonably confident in saying that the Apprentice Boys of Derry, in Derry, would not entertain such a march today without consultation and agreement with relevant parties in the city. It would also be hoped that offence would not be taken by Republicans at the wearing of poppies at the War Memorial in the city. This is a big step forward, because the scene you describe would at one time have been guaranteed to cause mayhem. Offence would have been intended and would have been welcomed with open arms, the poppy being the chosen object of provocation, as I think you will agree was the hope among some in Glasgow.

[MrGongGong]

Lest we forget.

But we will ......... as the original article that you found so obnoxious says
who does remember the Boer War ? etc

Or the Opium wars ? are we supposed to suspend our critical facilities about ALL history ?

[Flosshilde]

I'm sure the march went off peacefully, Flosshilde, or we would have heard. Compare the situation referred to in message 92 above. I'm reasonably confident in saying that the Apprentice Boys of Derry, in Derry, would not entertain such a march today without consultation and agreement with relevant parties in the city.

They proposed the route; in the face of representation from the police and the council that the route could be inflamatory (there had been problems in the past with a similar march) the ABD were adamant that that was the only appropriate route. It wasn't until they were threatened with being called before the public processions committee that they changed.

It isn't a question of the march being peaceful or not, Padraig. The 'loyal' organisation insisted that their parade to an event that is supposed, according to some poisters here, to be about peace, took a route that they must have known (because this was the second time they tried, & the second time they had been refused) would be provocative. I'm afraid 'peace' and 'an end to war' are not phrases that can be associated with the Orange movement, & I wonder what the reasons for their involvement in Armistice Day services are.

(http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...e-day.22586466)

[Beef Oven!]

I am proud to say that I am playing on this recording:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1NsMaspwOg

Lest we forget.

Excellent stuff Mr Pee - love the signature too!

[Mr Pee]

Well said that man!

We await the sentence of the court martial.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10439808/Marine-A-must-face-justice-but-the-law-has-its-limits-in-warfare.html

And I hope at least one or two will click the link in that article and join me in signing the Telegraph's petition for clemency in this case.

[MrGongGong]

Well there you go
I'm not sure of why we should be empathetic towards this murderer ? If it was the other way round the good folks in the DT would be calling for public execution ! I guess our wonderful armed forces can do no wrong in some eyes which is a very dangerous belief indeed.

[ahinton]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...n-warfare.html

And I hope at least one or two will click the link in that article and join me in signing the Telegraph's petition for clemency in this case.

Well, I will most certainly not be one of them. I don't always find myself in disagreement with Bumbling Boris the Boswell-less Johnson, but even here in his Telegraph piece he observes

It is pretty clear, also, that Marine A is aware of the gravity of what he has done, because he explicitly urges his fellow soldiers to keep quiet about it, and accepts that he has broken the Geneva Convention. This treaty goes back to 1864, when nations agreed in the wake of the Battle of Solferino five years earlier that they would collectively spare all those who were hors de combat.

Indeed, the notion that it is a crime to kill the wounded is far more ancient than that, and can be found in the laws of war that were observed by the Greek city states. It is a principle that was founded then, as now, on a mixture of ideas: the universal human idea of mercy, and a sensible hope of reciprocity – that if we spare your wounded, you will spare ours. It is a very old and immutable code that Marine broke, and one that happens to be enshrined in modern British law. It is right that the courts should uphold that law, say the generals, and so do I.

So let them do it, then; Sir Nicholas Houghton (Chief of the Defence Staff), Major-General Julian Thompson and Brigadier Bill Dunham (Royal Marines) have each gone on record as believing that they should - and one might reasonably assume that they have at least the expertise in such matters that you seek to claim for Sir Malcolm Rifkind in security matters.

[ahinton]

Well there you go
I'm not sure of why we should be empathetic towards this murderer ? If it was the other way round the good folks in the DT would be calling for public execution ! I guess our wonderful armed forces can do no wrong in some eyes which is a very dangerous belief indeed.

Read the article, Mr GG; even Bluffing Boris seems to bat for both sides here, as demonstrated by the bits that I've quoted from his DT piece in response to Mr Pee's sadly predictable exhortation to sign that petition for clemency. Not only is murder murder and British law British law, but the Geneva Convention is also the Geneva Convention with almost a century and a half's history behind it.

[MrGongGong]

Boris does seem a little confused doesn't he !
I'm still puzzled why this man continues to be referred to as "Marine A" ??

[amateur51]

Boris does seem a little confused doesn't he !
I'm still puzzled why this man continues to be referred to as "Marine A" ??

The Military is a strange country: they do things differently there.