Poppies and the "Heroes Industry" ?

[Mr Pee]

It's a shame that such a dignified and thoughtful discussion has to be spoiled by this post.

This is exactly why we're all here in the dungeon.

Nonsense. It's passionate and reflects the anger I felt at the time of posting. I meant every word.

And I notice you haven't criticised Mr.GG for telling me to" F**k off". If anything's worthy of being dungeoned, that is. But then your chums can do no wrong, can they? Although I am also surprised that FF has allowed such foul language to remain here on the forum at all. Isn't it against the house rules? Or do they not apply equally, as Scotty suggested?

[french frank]

And I notice you haven't criticised Mr.GG for telling me to" F**k off". If anything's worthy of being dungeoned, that is. But then your chums can do no wrong, can they? Although I am also surprised that FF has allowed such foul language to remain here on the forum at all. Isn't it against the house rules? Or do they not apply equally, as Scotty suggested?

The House Rules don't apply down here in the same way. But words have passed in other places, I can assure you.

As I said I found scotty's views on feminists 'offensive', I will also say (and have said) that I find MrGG's language offensive.

Given that the discussion had long moved on, I'm not sure why it was necessary to hark back Msg #3 in Msg #27, either. The board has been moved here because some people insist on introducing ad hominems into every discussion.

[MrGongGong]

Nonsense. It's passionate and reflects the anger I felt at the time of posting. I meant every word.

And I notice you haven't criticised Mr.GG for telling me to" F**k off". If anything's worthy of being dungeoned, that is. But then your chums can do no wrong, can they? Although I am also surprised that FF has allowed such foul language to remain here on the forum at all. Isn't it against the house rules? Or do they not apply equally, as Scotty suggested?

Here you go peester

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ignore

If you don't want to participate in what is an interesting discussion you know where to go

(and actually it was a quote , hence the "" and you missed the word "right" , which if you had dealings with irate teenagers would make sense to you in a tongue in cheek ironic way but never mind , i'm sure there's something interesting on Sky for you or there's always your Scalectrix to play with)

BUT back OT thanks for that AM
there was a thing on R4 about it last week and the formidable force that was Joan Littlewood

[eighthobstruction]

Nonsense. It's passionate and reflects the anger I felt at the time of posting. I meant every word.

And I notice you haven't criticised Mr.GG for telling me to" F**k off". If anything's worthy of being dungeoned, that is. But then your chums can do no wrong, can they? Although I am also surprised that FF has allowed such foul language to remain here on the forum at all. Isn't it against the house rules? Or do they not apply equally, as Scotty suggested?

Yes it was Almost an opening post after all (3rd)....and was at the start of a dignified and thoughtful discussion....and I too don't understand why GG has to be quite so ¬<*/#)]¬¬ rude.... in such an unsubtle way....Pee has every right to react the way he does without getting kicking out time mouthful....

[MrGongGong]

Yes it was Almost an opening post after all (3rd)....and was at the start of a dignified and thoughtful discussion....and I too don't understand why GG has to be quite so ¬<*/#)]¬¬ rude.... in such an unsubtle way....Pee has every right to react the way he does without getting kicking out time mouthful....

The point is that mr Pee claims to be "ignoring"
and didn't respond to the link I posted just came out with the same old weary faux outrage that one would expect
all his post does is ridicule the idea of asking questions about the way the world is.
So i'm sorry if YOU find swearing offensive
but i'm sure as a "military man" mr Pee should be able to take it "on the chin" !

I wanted to discuss the article and as mr Pee has decided that he doesn't want to talk to me (which is fine by me) then he should really butt out ! (which is more or less what I said in more "robust" language).....its funny how some people are more offended by someone saying the word fuck than senseless killing ! and it's interesting to see some of the responses to the guilty verdict in the court martial trial today ......

[eighthobstruction]

I don't want to trade who has the dirtier mouth....but I probably have....for sure....

It's more that the forum....just doesn't need it GG....

Anyway a nice little prog' for Pee at 2100hrs (and I'll watch it too)....Cold War , Hot Jets bbc2

[Flosshilde]

But that is not, in fact, the poppy's simplest 'official' meaning.

I didn't say that it was - just quoting from, and disagreeing with, ff. The simple 'official' meaning has changed over the years as the Earl Haig Fund has adapted to modern circumstances, but the concept of 'sacrifice' and 'defending your country' has surely remained fairly constant. And if you are 'sacrificing' yourself (or, more realistically, being sacrificed by your government) through war, then war must be 'glorious' - otherwise why is it sacrifice rather than simply being sent to kill or be killed?

[Ferretfancy]

The words 'The Glorious Dead' appear on the Cenotaph in Whitehall. My father lost close friends while fighting in WW1, and my brother lost friends while wading ashore on D Day in WWII. Neither of them thought their comrades were 'The Glorious Dead' and neither should we.

[amateur51]

Nonsense. It's passionate and reflects the anger I felt at the time of posting. I meant every word.

And I notice you haven't criticised Mr.GG for telling me to" F**k off". If anything's worthy of being dungeoned, that is. But then your chums can do no wrong, can they? Although I am also surprised that FF has allowed such foul language to remain here on the forum at all. Isn't it against the house rules? Or do they not apply equally, as Scotty suggested?

You say the same thing every year.

You wave the fact that you are an ex-service man in our faces like it's a trump card. You played in the band. I used to date a Guardsman in the 1970s. He was in the band too. Lovely embouchure.

I think Ferretfancy's msg #38 deals with your point quite nicely.

[Beef Oven!]

The words 'The Glorious Dead' appear on the Cenotaph in Whitehall. My father lost close friends while fighting in WW1, and my brother lost friends while wading ashore on D Day in WWII. Neither of them thought their comrades were 'The Glorious Dead' and neither should we.

With the greatest respect, surely we can't have things decided for us by what your father and brother thought? My granddad, got his throat shot out in the battle of the Somme, but survived, and my dad still has his injuries from Anzio, and both did (and do in my dad's case) think of the people that died around them as the glorious dead. However, I would not direct anyone to think along the same lines as these two Hoxton men. People should make up their own minds.

[teamsaint]

I recently took a stroll up Whitehall, towards Trafalgar Square.
I wasn't in a hurry, so I took the opportunity to really try to take in what was around me, in terms of the built environment, and the ambience of the place.
It was a troubling experience, and one that might lead a person to ask a lot of questions about what is done in the name of the people.

[MrGongGong]

Here are some other people trying to change the widely accepted meaning of a symbol

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scottish-tattoo-parlours-to-offer-free-swastika-inkings-in-bid-to-reclaim-symbol-8929641.html

I'm not sure that is going to work either

[Mr Pee]

You say the same thing every year.

You wave the fact that you are an ex-service man in our faces like it's a trump card. You played in the band. I used to date a Guardsman in the 1970s. He was in the band too. Lovely embouchure.

I think Ferretfancy's msg #38 deals with your point quite nicely.

Why don't you engage with the argument instead of engaging in personal attacks? And you could do us a favour and stop waving your homosexuality in our faces like a trump card.

Yes, I played in the band. I wasn't in the SAS. But nonetheless, I was deployed to the Middle East in a medical capacity during the first Gulf War, so I do at least have some experience of active service, including being on the receiving end of Scud missile attacks, and helping to treat those who were injured.

By the way, I don't think there's anything "glorious" about the dead either. Let's remember that the Cenotaph was erected in 1920, close to the end of the First World War, and inevitably people thought differently then. But glorious or not, I still think those who died should be honoured, and the wearing of poppies by the vast majority of the populace is simply a public statement of respect and commemoration, which at the same time raises funds for the Royal British Legion. I do not have a problem with that, and I find it deeply depressing that a small minority do. But that's their problem.

[teamsaint]

Mr Pee, unfortunately the wearing of the poppy, for many people, is not "simply" a statement of respect.
It would be so much easier if it was.

[Mr Pee]

Mr Pee, unfortunately the wearing of the poppy, for many people, is not "simply" a statement of respect.
It would be so much easier if it was.

For many people, it may not be, although I would be interested to know how many. For most people, it is just that.