Poppies and the "Heroes Industry" ?

[Beef Oven!]

A poll on the Huffington Post website shows that 53.8% consider that Sgt.Blackman has been treated too harshly, and 46.2% consider that he has been treated fairly:-

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/07/marine-a-petition_n_4404885.html

Which, if nothing else, shows what an alternative universe most contributors here seem to live in.

And here's a link to the petition, for those who wish to add their names to the tens of thousands who have already registered:-

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56810

Interesting. Almost an equal split. Just shows how different the world is compared to this forum. I like difference, it makes the world go 'round.

[ahinton]

Interesting. Almost an equal split. Just shows how different the world is compared to this forum. I like difference, it makes the world go 'round.

"Grahaem Harman"? Has the creator of the petition even bothered to spell his own name correctly? He might as well have referred to a Marnie...

I am relieved to note that the government has distanced itself, as shown on the petition text, from the kind of involvement in this that would suggest a willingness to be swayed by petitioners to consider interfering in the judicial process; this is especially important given that the marine concerned was hardly tried and convicted in some incompetent, unqualified and inexperienced kangaroo court.

I wonder how many other murderers would attract the kind of coverage in Huffington Post that this one has; I also wonder why - what's so special about this person as a murderer other than that he breached his professional contract and the Geneva Convention by committing murder.

The petition on the government's e-petition site, however, seeks to go much farther than the Huffington Post poll; it does not aim merely to attract signatures from people who think that this murderer has been "treated too harshly" but calls for his release from prison and the annulment of his conviction which, were these to occur as a direct consequence of actions that were the outcome of the petition passing the 100K point, would appear to give the green light to the commission of murder going unsentenced and make life very difficult for judges and juries in future murder cases.

It seems to me somewhat ironical that a handful (OK, only a very tiny minority, for sure) of petitioners would probably also advocate the return of capital punishment; there'd be precious little point in that if the only people who'd ever become subject to it could get off scot free in any case!

To be serious, though - the government would have done itself and the rest of us a grave disservice had it not added the text that it has done to the petition, thereby clarifying its refusal to be swayed into intervention, although there is, perhaps, some amusement factor in its statement that the matter "will be considered for debate by the Backbench Business Committee should it pass the 100,000 signature threshold". What on earth would be the reason for saddling the Backbench Business Committee with this one if ever it did pass that total? It's hardly a case of commercial corruption or fraud, is it?!

I also notice that the petition is open to signatories for over 11 months; as far as I recall (though I've not time to look it up), that's a good deal longer than is usually the case with such petitions and, if that is indeed so, one wonders why?

I also wonder if even the marine himself would consider that he merits immedite release from jail and the quashing of his conviction. If he does (and I somehow doubt it), it would make something of a mockery of his lame apologies for his crime, would it not? Furthermore, the description of the victim as a "terrorist" against whose "terrorism" the petition claims the marine to have "defended his country" is risible in the light of (a) the court martial's finding that he (the victim) had already been so seriously injured as to be put out of action and (b) the marine's allegation that he had assumed the victim already to be dead when he shot him.

In addition to being convicted and sentenced, the murderer has been summarily dismissed in disgrace from the armed services; the petition does not refer to this, but one might also wonder whether its creator would additionally like to see that dismissal quashed and the disgrace overturned by the award of a medal for courage and bravery in recognition of the defence of the murderer's country against a "terrorist"...

If you'll pardon my saying so, I think that the world would continue to go round with or without the huffing and puffing of the Huffington Post and/or the HM Government e-petition, regardless of the view of those polled by the former or the number of signatories to the latter (which, incidentally, I note remains well below the figure of 30,000 of which I had previously heard a report).

[MrGongGong]

I think some folks are upset because this goes against the "script".

[ahinton]

I think some folks are upset because this goes against the "script".

I'm not sure that I understand your mean here; could you explain? Which folks, upset about what and which "script"? I'm not arguing with you - just trying to figure out exactly what you had in mind when writing as you did here.

[MrGongGong]

I mean that the 'script' which says that ALL people in the armed forces are 'heroes' and can do no wrong.
Some folks are upset (the mrPee's and DM readers of this world) because for the first time since ? someone has actually been convicted of such a crime. It messes with the 'logic' that says everyone in the forces is a 'hero' bravely saving us all from anarchy and chaos. I suspect that many of the folks signing petitions and starting campaigns are the very folks who would demand the death penalty for the killers of the soldier in Woolwich.

[ahinton]

I mean that the 'script' which says that ALL people in the armed forces are 'heroes' and can do no wrong.
Some folks are upset (the mrPee's and DM readers of this world) because for the first time since ? someone has actually been convicted of such a crime. It messes with the 'logic' that says everyone in the forces is a 'hero' bravely saving us all from anarchy and chaos. I suspect that many of the folks signing petitions and starting campaigns are the very folks who would demand the death penalty for the killers of the soldier in Woolwich.

Thanks for this; I understand where you're coming from now - and yes, your last point is just what I had in mind when referring to petitioners who would at the same time advocate the return of capital punishment.

[amateur51]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...n-warfare.html

And I hope at least one or two will click the link in that article and join me in signing the Telegraph's petition for clemency in this case.

This petition had reached 10,000 signatories by 04 December 2013 - hardly a ringing endorsement.

[Mr Pee]

This petition had reached 10,000 signatories by 04 December 2013 - hardly a ringing endorsement.

Getting on for 25,000 on the petition requesting his immediate release.

[amateur51]

Getting on for 25,000 on the petition requesting his immediate release.

The head of steam which the pro-Sgt. Blackman lobby had developed ahead of the court matrial led one to believe that there would be a substantial groundswell of support for a reduction in the court martial's sentence once it was known.

I repeat, the current level of support for the release petition is hardly a ringing endorsement.

On what grounds would a convicted murder be released immediately.?

Let's reflect. He admits he committed the murder. He is filmed committing the murder. He is recorded as mocking his abuse of The Geneva Convention as he commits the murder. As far as I know (and I don't know much but those conducting the court matrial known everything that is germane) his defence did not attempt to suggest that he was insane. It seems to me that he is clearly guilty and that there are no grounds for a release of any sort.

[eighthobstruction]

A petition started and signed by folk who obviously do not know very much about JUSTICE or the way UK Law works....

[Mr Pee]

A petition started and signed by folk who obviously do not know very much about JUSTICE or the way UK Law works....

And criticized by those who obviously do not know very much about how DEMOCRACY works.....

[teamsaint]

And criticized by those who obviously do not know very much about how DEMOCRACY works.....

go on, you know you want to, tell us how democracy works.

Tell us how it works here, with our hopeless voting system and Banksters control(and the politicians in their pockets), tell us how it works in the US where 50% vote, tell us how it is in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Tell us how its getting on in Russia.

But in your own time, obviously.

[amateur51]

And criticized by those who obviously do not know very much about how DEMOCRACY works.....

There's nothing intrinsically democratic about the views of a small proportion of the voting-age population of a society turning itself into a baying mob, Mr Pee - get real.

[ahinton]

Getting on for 25,000 on the petition requesting his immediate release.

Do you believe that he should be released immediately and his conviction quashed - and do you accordingly believe that his summary dismissal from the armed forces be quashed also? If so, on what grounds? and, specifically, how do you distinguish between this and the manner which, for example, the murderer of Lee Rigby should be treated? In answering this, if you will, could you please also give a brief outline of the manner and extent of your distrust in the due process of law and the conduct of the judiciary in Britain in certain such cases that has prompted you to support this particular petition?

[ahinton]

And criticized by those who obviously do not know very much about how DEMOCRACY works.....

Do you therefore believe that democracy and the rule of law and judicial process are somehow potentially incompatible? That seems to me to be a most curious stance to adopt when the law and the practice of justice is so fundamental a cornerstone of democracy, but perhaps you can explain the background to your view here.