'Operation Yewtree' - the McCarthyism of our times??

[jean]

Claim?

Ah, I see, that rape is unknown in societies where acohol is banned was only a thought you had, not something you believed to be true, or for whose truth you made any claims.

Or were you being ironic?

[jean]

so when does a pattern become a pattern ? and when should we suspect one.?If half of what Saville is said to have done really took place, and there are strong suspicions that similar things were going on elsewhere, that starts to look like a pattern to me.

I think Mr Pee was referring to Shipman when he wrote that, so what you say about Savile is irrelevant.

if one doctor is murdering hundreds of patients, and another is dangerously over prescribing to many dozens (at least) of patients , it looks like a pattern to me. I would be unhappy if those in authority didn't treat it as a potential pattern of behaviour.

Whether there's a pattern must depend entirely on the motive in the two cases, and they don't seem to me to be the same.

(Since when did I become an apologist for Mr. Pee?)

[MrGongGong]

( I don't think Mr Pee and MrGongGongs comments about euthanasia are referring to the Barton case that I mentioned.)

I was merely pointing out that the some behaviours can get huge support from the public when in another context they are illegal.

[teamsaint]

I was merely pointing out that the some behaviours can get huge support from the public when in another context they are illegal.

thanks for clarifying, that is what I thought you meant,

[teamsaint]

I think Mr Pee was referring to Shipman when he wrote that, so what you say about Savile is irrelevant.


Whether there's a pattern must depend entirely on the motive in the two cases, and they don't seem to me to be the same.

(Since when did I become an apologist for Mr. Pee?)

Why does there have to be a perceived similar motive?

What I am highlighting in comparing Shipman (and it was SHB who mentioned him originally) and Saville is that there is a very real danger that people who repeat offend are part of a pattern , which may not yet have emerged.

The danger that there is a pattern in such serious matters is reason enough to look for it. That is no reason, of course, for not investigating in the correct manner.
At a personal level, I'm bot sure if being murdered by Shipman, or dangerously over prescribed resulting in death are much different.

[MrGongGong]

thanks for clarifying, that is what I thought you meant,

And should have added that there is a huge inbalance in the way in which the same act is treated by society when undertaken by a man or a woman. If a man goes out, gets drunk and has random sex with strangers (as long as they are women , of course !!) it's perceived as "laddish" and a bit of a laugh but the same behaviour in a woman is seen as a great moral panic that is indicative of how society is breaking down. It's probably NOT such a good idea to have sex when you are drunk and probably not a very safe way to behave for your physical and psychological well being regardless of whether you are male or female.

[jean]

If a man goes out, gets drunk and has random sex with strangers (as long as they are women , of course !!) it's perceived as "laddish" and a bit of a laugh but the same behaviour in a woman is seen as a great moral panic that is indicative of how society is breaking down. It's probably NOT such a good idea to have sex when you are drunk and probably not a very safe way to behave for your physical and psychological well being regardless of whether you are male or female.

I agree with all of that - which is why Anna's post so alarmed me.

[jean]

What I am highlighting in comparing Shipman (and it was SHB who mentioned him originally) and Saville is that there is a very real danger that people who repeat offend are part of a pattern , which may not yet have emerged.

Do you mean a pattern in their own behaviour, or a pattern of behaviour over a number of individuals? Or a pattern of ignoring such behaviour on the part of the authorities, whether it's the BBC or someone else?

[teamsaint]

Do you mean a pattern in their own behaviour, or a pattern of behaviour over a number of individuals? Or a pattern of ignoring such behaviour on the part of the authorities, whether it's the BBC or someone else?

I mean pattern of beheaviour over a number of individuals. In Saville's case a pattern of abuse, in Shipman's a pattern of behaviour that seems to be worringly close to other cases.


I wasn't really thinking about patterns of ignoring such cases by the authorities, although these are also there, and just as concerning.

[Anna]

I haven't been on the MB nearly a week (got workmen in replacing windows, etc.) If what I said led to scottycelt relinquishing his membership of this forum, then I do apologise to him. I didn't read all the P&CA threads but scotty seemed sound in his beliefs.

As to my view of some young women today and their behaviour, I won't say more except they are letting the sisterhood down in becoming the typical male dream.

[Mr Pee]

I hope that Scotty is still looking in on these boards and that he will soon re-consider his decision to leave.

[jean]

I haven't been on the MB nearly a week (got workmen in replacing windows, etc.) If what I said led to scottycelt relinquishing his membership of this forum, then I do apologise to him.

I am sure it was nothing you said!

As to my view of some young women today and their behaviour, I won't say more except they are letting the sisterhood down in becoming the typical male dream.

If young women independently decide to behave in ways that might horrify us, they should be able to do so without being thought to invite rape.

[Anna]

I am sure it was nothing you said!

I think it might ....

If young women independently decide to behave in ways that might horrify us, they should be able to do so without being thought to invite rape.

No jean, I am sorry. If young women are comatose in the gutter looking at the stars with no knickers, they ain't going to have an Oscar Wilde leaning over them .....
And then, stuff on YouTube, did you see, a music festival - went viral - girl labelled as slut, slag, bloke labelled as Hero!
No, men need educating. I am afraid that is unlikely.

[jean]

...girl labelled as slut, slag, bloke labelled as Hero!
No, men need educating....

Then we must start educating them by organising a Slutwalk!

Will you join me?

[Anna]

Then we must start educating them by organising a Slutwalk!
Will you join me?

Yes, I would, gladly, but, to he honest, men need educating from the cradle onwards, which is down to their mothers, so females must stop/break this cycle by educating their sons that females are weak and males are strong.