'Operation Yewtree' - the McCarthyism of our times??

[Anna]

As another feminist, I cannot tell you how much I wish you had not written that, especially the last bit.
No time for more now.

Shall I delete then jean?
No, I'll leave it for the mo, because I am interested in what you say about this trend, towards lasses becoming lads.

[scottycelt]

Your reference to 'a bit of a straight banana' made me laugh out loud, MrGG - many thanks!

I'm afraid you have again inadvertently highlighted the basic problem ...

It is the sheer unthinking, sneering intolerance of some today who, at the same time, are forever preaching 'tolerance' and 'understanding', which is what is so hard for others to even begin to comprehend.

[Richard Barrett]

the sheer unthinking, sneering intolerance of some today who, at the same time, are forever preaching 'tolerance' and 'understanding'

It isn't rocket science. Some things which have previously been tolerated, like preying sexually on young people, have been seen not to be tolerable in a society with claims to be civilised. Other things which have previously not been tolerated, like treating same-sex relationships as just as meaningful as heterosexual ones, have been seen to be desirable in a society which claims to be civilised. What these two things have in common is that "civilisation" in both cases means respect for other people.

As for Anna's example of scantily-clad girls going out on the town and getting drunk, surely she would agree that there are no circumstances when rape is excusable, in (once again) a society with claims to be civilised, in other words that it's not the girls she's talking about who are the problem here, it's the boys who take advantage of them.

[amateur51]

I'm afraid you have again inadvertently highlighted the basic problem ...

It is the sheer unthinking, sneering intolerance of some today who, at the same time, are forever preaching 'tolerance' and 'understanding', which is what is so hard for others to even begin to comprehend.

Don't be too hard on yourself scotty.

[french frank]

It is the sheer unthinking, sneering intolerance of some today who, at the same time, are forever preaching 'tolerance' and 'understanding', which is what is so hard for others to even begin to comprehend.

Seems the best way to get a response in some discussions.

[Mr Pee]

As to feminism, as a feminist, I totally despair of young girls (and this makes me sound like around 100 years old which I am not) going out into city centres, with their skirts so short they are exposing their bums, getting mullered and crying about rape afterwards whilst they are unconscious through JaegerBombs.
Emmeline would be turning in her grave. This is not Feminism, it's females trying to be males, and it doesn't work.

Well said.

[MrGongGong]

Well said.

Yeah right
mr Pee talks feminism :YIKES:
somehow i'm not convinced ........ or is that too much cynicism ?

[Richard Barrett]

mr Pee talks feminism

I wouldn't go that far, I think he's just agreeing with Anna's apparent opinion that having sex with someone who hasn't given their consent isn't rape if said person is wearing a short skirt and has had a few drinks, which if I'm not mistaken is an extremely anti-feminist line to take.

[scottycelt]

It isn't rocket science. Some things which have previously been tolerated, like preying sexually on young people, have been seen not to be tolerable in a society with claims to be civilised. Other things which have previously not been tolerated, like treating same-sex relationships as just as meaningful as heterosexual ones, have been seen to be desirable in a society which claims to be civilised. What these two things have in common is that "civilisation" in both cases means respect for other people.

As for Anna's example of scantily-clad girls going out on the town and getting drunk, surely she would agree that there are no circumstances when rape is excusable, in (once again) a society with claims to be civilised, in other words that it's not the girls she's talking about who are the problem here, it's the boys who take advantage of them.

Well. some of us don't like your idea of 'civilisation' any more than you like ours. So maybe it's best to leave it at that on this occasion.

Frankly, I think your second point is deeply insulting to women and indeed thoroughly sexist. Are you suggesting that girls are not capable of taking advantage of boys as well as vice-versa? That has certainly not been my experience!

Furthermore, somebody who leaves their house with all the windows open should not be too surprised when they return to find the place burgled. That doesn't excuse the robbery but displays an extraordinary degree of stupidity and at least part-culpability on the part of the occupant, surely? Same with women who wander around town at night drunk and half-naked. They have chosen to be irresponsible and therefore expose themselves to greater danger. They must accept some responsibility for being irresponsible. They are women ... they are just as capable as men in making sensible decisions ... well, aren't they?

As the Blessed Vinteuil recently put the question to me... 'what part of this do you not understand?'

[MrGongGong]

I think the caveman was a more accurate image........

[Richard Barrett]

I think the caveman was a more accurate image........

.... I mean where do you start? The idea of gender equality surely implies that a woman ought to be able to go out and behave however she likes without running the risk of having unwanted sex with someone. What part of this does scottycelt not understand, I wonder? The comparison with burglary is fatuous and insulting.

[MrGongGong]

.... I mean where do you start? The idea of gender equality surely implies that a woman ought to be able to go out and behave however she likes without running the risk of having unwanted sex with someone. What part of this does scottycelt not understand, I wonder? The comparison with burglary is fatuous and insulting.

indeed
nothing to say really :-(

[jean]

Anna went further even than that - she wrote

...crying about rape afterwards whilst they are unconscious through JaegerBombs...

That's worse than thinking that having sex with a woman without her consent isn't rape if she's wearing a short skirt and has had a few drinks - the old argument about leaving your wallet lying around, the contributory negligence beloved of elderly male judges

If I read it correctly, it's saying that even of the sex was consensual, a woman is likely to change her mind and try to claim it was rape after she's sobered up a bit and regretted it.

Any woman who does this does untold damage to the women who really have been raped. But to suggest that it's a general rule is misleading and dangerous in the extreme.

No wonder it brought the Pees and Scottys out of the woodwork.

This is...females trying to be males, and it doesn't work.

Which can only mean that getting drunk and having casual sex with comatose partners is OK for men, as it's always been, but not for women.

I'm not sure it's a great idea for either.

[jean]

Are you suggesting that girls are not capable of taking advantage of boys as well as vice-versa? That has certainly not been my experience!'

Why does this make my skin crawl?

[MrGongGong]

Why does this make my skin crawl?

Luckily most young women that I know would tell him to "f*ck right off" and I can't find much wrong with that !
Scotty , for all his dictionary nonsense, seems to exhibit a remarkable amount of cognitive dissonance