A Study of AUNT

[Mr Pee]

All the man has done is two minutes of aerobic activity and spasm, followed weeks later by ante-natal classes, plus may be a spot of decoration.

If it's only two minutes, you're doing it wrong.

[ahinton]

If you can get the full stats for men and women doing the same work for the same hours, perhaps you'd post them. My point about women doing more menial work was that that was at odds with their (average) educational attainment being better than boys' - so why would they be doing more menial jobs?

Fair point, of course.

[ahinton]

If it's only two minutes, you're doing it wrong.

For once, Mr Pee, I agree with you!...

[french frank]

I have already stated that there are pay differences between men and men and women and women. Employers discriminate every time they hire staff at interviews, whether they be male or female.

This overlooks this siignificance of the "MEAN" statistics. Which means that on the whole men get paid a significant amount more than women - taking into consideration that some men get paid more than some other men and similarly with women.

It is no use saying that women should get the same pay as men on the grounds of 'equality' and then clearly discriminate in other areas like maternity and paternity leave. It's really that simple.

Yes, it's quite simple. At the end of paternity and maternity there is that inconvenience called a child. And in general the maternal parent continues to look after the child for longer than the paternal parent. Hence the difference, not the inequality. The woman is the one who has given birth, the man helps change the nappies and may get up in the middle of the night to stop him/her crying by cuddling and cooing (as does the woman).

[amateur51]

If it's only two minutes, you're doing it wrong.

To produce a quantity of semen? I don't think so. The turkey baster does the rest.

[amateur51]

This overlooks this siignificance of the "MEAN" statistics. Which means that on the whole men get paid a significant amount more than women - taking into consideration that some men get paid more than some other men and similarly with women.

Yes, it's quite simple. At the end of paternity and maternity there is that inconvenience called a child. And in general the maternal parent continues to look after the child for longer than the paternal parent. Hence the difference, not the inequality. The woman is the one who has given birth, the man helps change the nappies and may get up in the middle of the night to stop him/her crying by cuddling and cooing (as does the woman).

I wonder if the post-birth work-deniers have much experience of having babies around?

And before the 'clever' remarks get posted, I was 12 when my sister was born and I did my fair-share of nappy-changing, bathing, bottle-preparation and feeding, pram-pushing, pram-rocking, getting up in the night, etc - for which experiences I am very grateful.

[amateur51]

The Fawcett Society's Employment Report 2012 provides a wealth of data and analysis

http://fawcettsociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Fawcett-The-changing-labour-market.pdf

The graph on page 11 demonstrates the pay gap between men & women across the public and private sectors.

[french frank]

Feminists!!!

The Fawcett Society's Employment Report 2012 provides a wealth of data and analysis

http://fawcettsociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Fawcett-The-changing-labour-market.pdf

The graph on page 11 demonstrates the pay gap between men & women across the public and private sectors.

[Mr Pee]

To produce a quantity of semen? I don't think so. The turkey baster does the rest.

Oh dear.

[scottycelt]

This overlooks this siignificance of the "MEAN" statistics. Which means that on the whole men get paid a significant amount more than women - taking into consideration that some men get paid more than some other men and similarly with women.

Hmm, we are supposed to be talking about men and women doing the same job which is the only truly meaningful (no pun intended) comparison.

Yes, it's quite simple. At the end of paternity and maternity there is that inconvenience called a child. And in general the maternal parent continues to look after the child for longer than the paternal parent. Hence the difference, not the inequality. The woman is the one who has given birth, the man helps change the nappies and may get up in the middle of the night to stop him/her crying by cuddling and cooing (as does the woman).

Yes, I agree, which is the whole point. There IS a difference in mother and father roles which is reflected in maternity and paternity benefits. In this situation the woman receives the greater benefit, and rightly so. So there is really no such thing as 'equality'!

Why protest when employers recognise the risk of a woman becoming pregnant and therefore pay a man more as in that case he is likely to be of more long-term use to them?

I repeat, it's really that simple. In both cases it's economic and practical reality whether it involves a man or woman.

[scottycelt]

Oh dear.

That's putting it mildly.

The sheer contempt for the male of the species is quite remarkable for a constantly self-advertising gay man. :sad:

[amateur51]

Feminists!!!

The Fawcett Society is a really nifty bunch, working on this occasion with Unison

[french frank]

Hmm, we are supposed to be talking about men and women doing the same job which is the only truly meaningful (no pun intended) comparison.

We're not really since it's only in some cases that there is an exact equivalent between what individuals do. The bigger picture is shown in the mean statistics, men getting better jobs, unfettered by child-bearing and rearing.

Yes, I agree, which is the whole point. There IS a difference in mother and father roles which is reflected in maternity and paternity benefits. In this situation the woman receives the greater benefit, and rightly so. So there is really no such thing as 'equality'!

'Benefit' is a classic 'weasel word' here. The woman stays at home missing out on career opportunities and enhanced pay scales to look after the joint child. You could just as well call that 'benefit' the non-monetary 'compensation' for the imposed 'choice'.

Why protest when employers recognise the risk of a woman becoming pregnant and therefore pay a man more as in that case he is likely to be of more long-term use to them?

Carrying on, unhindered, up his career ladder ... while he leaves his wife at home to look after his child. Perhaps paternity leave should be extended to enable the woman to go back to work so as not to inconvenience her employer too much?

[ahinton]

To produce a quantity of semen? I don't think so. The turkey baster does the rest.

You've lost me there, I fear! A turkey baster? I much prefer a good goose anyway, but the prospect that even a fine organic bronze Norfolk one might have anything to do with this, let alone an unbootiful Bernard Matthews excrescence, seems worrying to say the very least...

Anyway, perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about because I have no children, but I didn't think that this fact would indicate quite such a level of ignorance on my part...

Ah, well...

[Mr Pee]

That's putting it mildly.

The sheer contempt for the male of the species is quite remarkable for a constantly self-advertising gay man. :sad:

Indeed. And that's before we even mention the crudity and distastefulness.