Campbell challenges Dacre to debate

[scottycelt]

A lot of people thought that the Tory party conference was a personal triumph for Dave because nobody mentioned E*r*p*, so you're a bit way off the mark there.

Nobody mentioned Europe because everything was stage-managed to highlight the single theme 'we're for hard-working people'. You can hardly get much more uncontroversial than that as if anyone was going to stand up and rail against hard-working people. The rest was the usual display of speakers mutually congratulating each other on the wonderful jobs they were doing. Not that the Labour and LD conferences were much different.

I note that a few of these ministers and shadow-ministers doing such wonderful jobs have since been sacked. <erm>

[amateur51]

Nobody mentioned Europe because everything was stage-managed to highlight the single theme 'we're for hard-working people'. You can hardly get much more uncontroversial than that as if anyone was going to stand up and rail against hard-working people. The rest was the usual display of speakers mutually congratulating each other on the wonderful jobs they were doing. Not that the Labour and LD conferences were much different.

I note that a few of these ministers and shadow-ministers doing such wonderful jobs have since been sacked. <erm>

You'll not have noticed Adam Afriyie's attempts to get a referendum on EU membership next year then, scotty?

[scottycelt]

You'll not have noticed Adam Afriyie's attempts to get a referendum on EU membership next year then, scotty?

Certainly not at the Tory Conference, amsey ... can you provide a Guardian link that might possibly assist my failing memory? :winkeye:

[Mr Pee]

Certainly not at the Tory Conference, amsey ... can you provide a Guardian link that might possibly assist my failing memory? :winkeye:

Please don't encourage him. I'm sure he's on commission.

[ahinton]

Although it's somewhat off-topic, since the Tory party conference has been mentioned here, one might argue that its only notable achievement has been the removal of the hyphen in "hard-working"; Sydney Grew would be most aggrieved at that, I feel sure...

[Richard Barrett]

Here is an enlightening article on the subject by Tariq Ali.

[scottycelt]

I see Dacre has the same piece concerning Miliband in both the Mail and Guardian today. I heard one contributor on R4's Today this morning claiming the two newspapers had mutual respect for each other as both really understood their readership in a way other newspapers sometimes do not.

That is true but is that necessarily a good thing? We all know what Right-wing and Liberal-Left newspapers will say on just about everything to comply with their readerships' social and political prejudices.

It would be nice to have newspapers which spoke from an independent viewpoint. The Independent was launched initially as such but then obviously decided it might be more lucrative to try to compete with the Guardian. The Guardian, for all its faults, does that particular job much better in the same way as the Mail does compared to the Express.

[Richard Barrett]

We all know what Right-wing and Liberal-Left newspapers will say on just about everything to comply with their readerships' social and political prejudices.

That is one way of looking at it, but there is more to the world than prejudice: there are such things as facts and lies. To take two prominent recent examples: what the Guardian published from Edward Snowden's files consisted of facts, and what the Daily Mail published about Ralph Miliband consisted largely of lies, from the headline down. In both cases of course it could be said that the newspaper in question was pandering to the convictions of its regular readership. But those convictions themselves don't drop out of the sky, and none of this alters the facts/lies distinction.

[Mr Pee]

That is one way of looking at it, but there is more to the world than prejudice: there are such things as facts and lies. To take two prominent recent examples: what the Guardian published from Edward Snowden's files consisted of facts, and what the Daily Mail published about Ralph Miliband consisted largely of lies, from the headline down. In both cases of course it could be said that the newspaper in question was pandering to the convictions of its regular readership. But those convictions themselves don't drop out of the sky, and none of this alters the facts/lies distinction.

Ah yes, of course. The Guardian can do no wrong.....

http://www.trendingcentral.com/the-smears-of-glenn-greenwald-and-the-guardian/

[amateur51]

Ah yes, of course. The Guardian can do no wrong.....

http://www.trendingcentral.com/the-s...-the-guardian/

Louise Mensch is very keen on transparency in others but fails to mention that she's is planning to become an American citizen and also has an interest in entering American politics; in which case this blog entry suddenly slips into an altogether different focus.

[Richard Barrett]

Ah yes, of course. The Guardian can do no wrong.....

Nobody is claiming that.

[Mr Pee]

Louise Mensch is very keen on transparency in others but fails to mention that she's is planning to become an American citizen and also has an interest in entering American politics; in which case this blog entry suddenly slips into an altogether different focus.

It makes no difference whatsoever to the content.

[amateur51]

It makes no difference whatsoever to the content.

Just giving everyone some much-needed context, oh wise one

[amateur51]

Nobody is claiming that.

The poster will be gutted that you've spotted that.

He likes things to be black and white, good and evil, nothing murky and in-between, inconvenient things like that.

[Richard Barrett]

The poster will be gutted that you've spotted that.

Besides which the Snowden material has also been published by the Washington Post, a liberal newspaper in the American sense but by no means as left-leaning as the Guardian; and the Spiegel of which the same could be said. What I mean to say is that investigative journalism which uncovers government misdeeds is not the preserve of so-called "lefty" publications.