Dreadful drowning in Lampedusa....

[Mr Pee]

I had a point to make in the discussion, concerning why economic migration happens , and under such dangerous circumstances.

What is your point? you did have a point , didn't you?

or were you just a bit tired ?

The point was that it is remarkable on these boards how a discussion of just about any subject under the sun will sooner or later see somebody blaming America, whatever the problem is.

And don't get me started on foreign aid- why we send large amounts of money overseas, often to corrupt regimes where it is not used for its intended purpose anyway, whilst at the same time cutting back on public spending here, is beyond any sane person's comprehension.

[MrGongGong]

The point was that it is remarkable on these boards how a discussion of just about any subject under the sun will sooner or later see somebody blaming America, whatever the problem is.

And don't get me started on foreign aid- why we send large amounts of money overseas, often to corrupt regimes where it is not used for its intended purpose anyway, whilst at the same time cutting back on public spending here, is beyond any sane person's comprehension.

It's probably beyond YOUR comprehension i'm sure ;-)
BUT
much (not all) "aid" is tied to trade deals
so it's more of an investment

What is really sad is that so many people seem to lack any empathy for these people killed in this terrible tragedy.

[teamsaint]

My point about America was just an example of how the developed world has so much, wastes so much, and consequently causes economic devastation elsewhere.

It's not remarkable at all how many conversations come round to America's misuse of its economic (and military ) power, because in reality it is at the root of much that is wrong.
Support for autocratic regimes like the Saudis , for instance, can be linked to problems with fundamentalist extremism.

Foreign aid is problematic, but it is quite clearly a long way from being as simple as " We send aid to bad regimes, lets stop".
But that is probably a different discussion.

[teamsaint]

It's probably beyond YOUR comprehension i'm sure ;-)
BUT
much (not all) "aid" is tied to trade deals
so it's more of an investment

What is really sad is that so many people seem to lack any empathy for these people killed in this terrible tragedy.

Important point.

[MrGongGong]

Support for autocratic regimes like the Saudis , for instance, can be linked to problems with fundamentalist extremism.
.

No it can't, bad things are done by evil people, there are no causes, no explanations

S.Celt 2013 :-(

[eighthobstruction]

My point about America was just an example of how the developed world has so much, wastes so much, and consequently causes economic devastation elsewhere.

It's not remarkable at all how many conversations come round to America's misuse of its economic (and military ) power, because in reality it is at the root of much that is wrong.
Support for autocratic regimes like the Saudis , for instance, can be linked to problems with fundamentalist extremism.

Foreign aid is problematic, but it is quite clearly a long way from being as simple as " We send aid to bad regimes, lets stop".
But that is probably a different discussion.

....to say nothing about support of Israel (oops just did) and 70 odd years of strife....and UN vetoes ref land-grab....and the £$ involved in that little merry go round....

[amateur51]

The point was that it is remarkable on these boards how a discussion of just about any subject under the sun will sooner or later see somebody blaming America, whatever the problem is.

And don't get me started on foreign aid- why we send large amounts of money overseas, often to corrupt regimes where it is not used for its intended purpose anyway, whilst at the same time cutting back on public spending here, is beyond any sane person's comprehension.

OK, what about the corrupt regimes in Washington DC and Westminster? These regimes wage illegal wars, are knee-deep in the arms trade, deliberately destabilise the elected governments of other nations where they disapprove of them, wage drone wars on their allies, etc etc.

A few good reasons there.

[Mr Pee]

OK, what about the corrupt regimes in Washington DC and Westminster? These regimes wage illegal wars, are knee-deep in the arms trade, deliberately destabilise the elected governments of other nations where they disapprove of them, wage drone wars on their allies, etc etc.

And we're back to the same old stuck record. Don't you have any others?

[MrGongGong]

....to say nothing about support of Israel (oops just did) and 70 odd years of strife....and UN vetoes ref land-grab....and the £$ involved in that little merry go round....

That's got nothing to do with it, hasn't it ?

And we're back to the same old stuck record. Don't you have any others?

I hear that Daniel Barenboim's new book is going to be called "Nothing is Connected" he came to this conclusion after playing some trio sonatas with Scotty and the green clarinettist

[amateur51]

And we're back to the same old stuck record. Don't you have any others?

it's intersting that you never advance an argument, you just sloganise. I was responding to you with a point of view, but I got nothing back.

Is it because you don't think in that way?

Is it because you don't think, just get those knobbly knees jerking all over?

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, and aid is not the long-term solution. But the greater the (outside) resources the more possibilities for solving that problem.

Not with the usual accompanying conditions, or "investment" in MrGG's euphemism for terms including demands to privatise anything not tied into the global network of economic gambling and exploitation. For all the laudible intentions, which would work in different circumstances, Christian Aid etc amounts to a tiny transfusion beside a haemorrhage.

[Mr Pee]

it's intersting that you never advance an argument, you just sloganise. I was responding to you with a point of view, but I got nothing back.

Is it because you don't think in that way?

Is it because you don't think, just get those knobbly knees jerking all over?

Because your point of view is always the same Guardian editorial repeated ad nauseam. Everything is the fault of the USA, News International, the Daily Mail, Thatcher, the Metropolitan police, etc., etc., etc.,.....

I have advanced my argument against that view many, many, times.

[Serial_Apologist]

The point was that it is remarkable on these boards how a discussion of just about any subject under the sun will sooner or later see somebody blaming America, whatever the problem is.

One such problem being the inability of the American government to solve its spending plans because of being held to ransom by your friends in the Tea Party, in case you haven't been listening to the news lately.

[teamsaint]

Because your point of view is always the same Guardian editorial repeated ad nauseam. Everything is the fault of the USA, News International, the Daily Mail, Thatcher, the Metropolitan police, etc., etc., etc.,.....

I have advanced my argument against that view many, many, times.

so, if problems are not caused by those with power , money, influence, they are caused by the people at the bottom . Right?

So they WANT to be poor, powerless, exploited. Is that it?

[MrGongGong]

I have advanced my argument against that view many, many, times.

You don't seem to have one apart from the usual moral superiority complex
so (but you don't even read what I say ?) what is constructive and positive (for example) about selling arms ?
You were more than a little offended (which seems to be your "normal" state) when it was suggested that selling arms to dodgy people was comparable to selling drugs to children which seemed a perfectly accurate comparison to me.