Poor value pensions....

[MrGongGong]

The country was full to start with.

aaah yes lets blame immigration for everything
why not add the EU as well ?
and while you are at it I would humbly suggest that the rot started with Schoenberg , I mean "serialism" what a joke !

[ahinton]

I work hard too, and so do most people. I don't see what this is supposed to prove.

Nor do I - almost certainly because it is capable of proving nothing.

[ahinton]

aaah yes lets blame immigration for everything
why not add the EU as well ?
and while you are at it I would humbly suggest that the rot started with Schoenberg , I mean "serialism" what a joke !

Ah, yes - the universal bogey-man! Yes - let's blame him for everything!

Grrrr!!!!

[amateur51]

I'll not even bother to debate this. Sweeping generalisations are your forte.

£14 6.5p ...what does it matter ? The point is that all this talk of 'unfair pay' etc inequality etc actually is not borne out by the maths. So the CEO's get a good package. So what..maybe they worked hard.

This brief response is so full of the sweeping generalisations for which you mock me as to be laughable.

Have you read the background stuff about inequality?

Or are you a member of the CEO cadre and thus determined to protect your privileges?

[Beef Oven!]

aaah yes lets blame immigration for everything

Re-read RM's post MrGG, he did not blame immigration, he blamed Labour. And no one is 'blaming immigration for everything', you must stop these silly straw man arguments, my hay fever is becoming intolerable ;-)

[MrGongGong]

We have too many people in this country and allowed (thanks to Labours deliberate policy) unfettered immigration. The country was full to start with.

This ........ is nonsense and simply repeats what is a piece of "received wisdom"
when did we have "Unfettered immigration" ?
At the time that Labour were in power I was working with an ensemble of refugee musicians from Somalia, Kurdistan, The Congo, Iran and Liberia their experiences seemed to tell a different story all together.
Or does he mean from the EU ?

but as he ? is doing the "i'm better that you so i'm ignoring you" thing there's no point trying to have a conversation with him/she/it about it .......... so as you were (a lone soul in a shoal of kippers clutching a well played copy of "Metal Machine Music" while all around are dancing to Skrewdriver ........ in a post-modern ironic way , of course !)

[Resurrection Man]

ams.....I've already pointed out the stupidity of singling out 100 CEO's and suggesting that their salaries be redistributed resulting in an extra £14 to the average yearly wage of the rest of us. It is Economics 101 which you seem unable to grasp. You need someone with brains, drive, energy, nous....call it what you will...to run a large profitable company. That company pays corporation tax (yes, I know there are some that don't pay enough etc and I have already said that that needs to change as indeed it may well be but that is a global regulation issue). It pays dividends to shareholders. It increases the share price. That helps pension funds pay out pensions. OK...so you haven't got a pension. Tough. That is where the state pension comes in. But many people do have a pension. They may well have forgone going out for a pint and put the money into their pension pot instead. Good for them. Some people cannot..for whatever reason..disability etc...and yes, the State and charities and/or families need to provide support. But that support needs money.

The more successful a company is the more people it will employ. That means more income tax. So corporation tax and income tax. Into the Exchequer and some of it comes out to support those in need such as the disabled. Excellent news. But if you don't have someone pushing to make that company a success then you don't get the tax.

So less of the 'oooh...it is so unfair'. Life's a bitch...get over it.

It's all very well bandying about sweeping generalisations but if you read only those newspapers that reinforce your own prejudices then of course you are going to just carry on with the generalisations. Statistics can be tweaked to support any argument. Obesity? Try not stuffing your face...stop eating sweets...go vegetarian...stop blaming others. Take some responsibility for your own actions.

If you really want to have a rant about really obscene wages then try professional footballers....who, as far as I can see, do sweet FA. First footballer on £1million...a month !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8265851/How-footballers-wages-have-changed-over-the-years-in-numbers.html

ts....getting old 101. You can stick your head in the sand as much as you like but the fact is that we are living longer. Medical care and drugs have improved to the point where many of the past common causes of death in the elderly have been reduced. The problem with that is that the body (and mind) continues to age. So problems that would never have manifested themselves in the past (because the person would already be dead) now come to the forefront. But for many of these problems such as the body getting more and more decrepit ....."Ooh Doctor, I've got an ache in my leg" .... resulting in being sent off to hospital for a barrage of tests that in most cases result in 'there's not a lot we can do for you'. That is a huge drain on the NHS. For my part, I ain't getting to that stage. I will toddle off to Switzerland long before my body gets too decrepit that I am dragging around a colostomy bag.

[amateur51]

ams.....I've already pointed out the stupidity of singling out 100 CEO's and suggesting that their salaries be redistributed resulting in an extra £14 to the average yearly wage of the rest of us. It is Economics 101 which you seem unable to grasp. You need someone with brains, drive, energy, nous....call it what you will...to run a large profitable company. That company pays corporation tax (yes, I know there are some that don't pay enough etc and I have already said that that needs to change as indeed it may well be but that is a global regulation issue). It pays dividends to shareholders. It increases the share price. That helps pension funds pay out pensions. OK...so you haven't got a pension. Tough. That is where the state pension comes in. But many people do have a pension. They may well have forgone going out for a pint and put the money into their pension pot instead. Good for them. Some people cannot..for whatever reason..disability etc...and yes, the State and charities and/or families need to provide support. But that support needs money.

The more successful a company is the more people it will employ. That means more income tax. So corporation tax and income tax. Into the Exchequer and some of it comes out to support those in need such as the disabled. Excellent news. But if you don't have someone pushing to make that company a success then you don't get the tax.

So less of the 'oooh...it is so unfair'. Life's a bitch...get over it.

It's all very well bandying about sweeping generalisations but if you read only those newspapers that reinforce your own prejudices then of course you are going to just carry on with the generalisations. Statistics can be tweaked to support any argument. Obesity? Try not stuffing your face...stop eating sweets...go vegetarian...stop blaming others. Take some responsibility for your own actions.

If you really want to have a rant about really obscene wages then try professional footballers....who, as far as I can see, do sweet FA. First footballer on £1million...a month !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8265851/How-footballers-wages-have-changed-over-the-years-in-numbers.html

ts....getting old 101. You can stick your head in the sand as much as you like but the fact is that we are living longer. Medical care and drugs have improved to the point where many of the past common causes of death in the elderly have been reduced. The problem with that is that the body (and mind) continues to age. So problems that would never have manifested themselves in the past (because the person would already be dead) now come to the forefront. But for many of these problems such as the body getting more and more decrepit ....."Ooh Doctor, I've got an ache in my leg" .... resulting in being sent off to hospital for a barrage of tests that in most cases result in 'there's not a lot we can do for you'. That is a huge drain on the NHS. For my part, I ain't getting to that stage. I will toddle off to Switzerland long before my body gets too decrepit that I am dragging around a colostomy bag.

Well I'm sure you feel better after that deeply patronising and rather unpleasant exercise in stating the obvious.

The really interesting bit to me is the last part where you seem to be convinced that you'll be in control right to the end. I hope you're right but looking around, I'd not put money on it. Perhaps start reaching out rather than pushing away is the name of the game before then? We're all in this together in ways that David Cameron has never given thought to. There are certainly resources enough in the world even now to solve a good many of the present's and the future's problems.These problems are soluble but not by people who smugly stare down from their lofty towers of condescension shaking their heads at the folly of the worker ants. It requires a whole new way (to them) of thinking.

Remind me about your Mali tribesman whom you gave a little space to in an earlier 'argument' when it suited you but who now seems to have been discarded. Where does he fit in now? What does he think about how resources are shared out, locally, internationally and globally?

[Beef Oven!]

This ........ is nonsense and simply repeats what is a piece of "received wisdom"
when did we have "Unfettered immigration" ?
At the time that Labour were in power I was working with an ensemble of refugee musicians from Somalia, Kurdistan, The Congo, Iran and Liberia their experiences seemed to tell a different story all together.
Or does he mean from the EU ?

but as he ? is doing the "i'm better that you so i'm ignoring you" thing there's no point trying to have a conversation with him/she/it about it .......... so as you were (a lone soul in a shoal of kippers clutching a well played copy of "Metal Machine Music" while all around are dancing to Skrewdriver ........ in a post-modern ironic way , of course !)

Not rubbish at all. But it's not a big issue is it? immigration I mean. Why do you get so emotional?

It's this sort of hysteria that nearly cost Galileo his life!

Cast off your false consciousness and listen to some jazz!

[amateur51]

Not rubbish at all. But it's not a big issue is it? immigration I mean. Why do you get so emotional?

It's this sort of hysteria that nearly cost Galileo his life!

Cast off your false consciousness and listen to some jazz!

Only in year 2000 did London's population get back to its pre-1939 levels. Just a thought.

Source was the old body that Ken set up in the 1980s to provide data about London but which got abolished by New Labour, now long gone.

[MrGongGong]

Not rubbish at all. But it's not a big issue is it? immigration I mean. Why do you get so emotional?

It's this sort of hysteria that nearly cost Galileo his life!

Cast off your false consciousness and listen to some jazz!

HO HO

I'm still puzzled about when this era of so called "unfettered" immigration was ?

[teamsaint]

RM

you simply haven't answered some of the points I raise.
Like the record numbers (including immigrants) IN work and paying taxes, for the NHS that they "drain". remind me who pays for that?

Yes , to run a big company well requires a special skill set. Tragically, top of that skill set seem to be raising the share price and lowering the tax bill at almost any cost

Yes life IS "unfair". It deals us all different cards that we play better or worse than each other. That is absolutely nothing to do with allowing wealth divisions to run out of control in our society.
For their own good, as well our own, the super rich and the corporations ought to learn the lessons of history. Nothing is for ever.

Edit. It might be worth asking why our society values footballers so highly. It isn't what is being paid on ticket prices, but has a lot to do with control of the media.

[eighthobstruction]

HO HO

I'm still puzzled about when this era of so called "unfettered" immigration was ?

....it's a bit fettered ....isn't it??....it's just the fetters have been laid off and been misdirected........

[Beef Oven!]

HO HO

I'm still puzzled about when this era of so called "unfettered" immigration was ?

Might have something to do with the fact that more immigrants came to the UK in 2010 than in any year in the last thousand years.................



And this.......


from Andrew Neather (Mr Neather was a speech writer who worked in Downing Street for Tony Blair and in the Home Office for Jack Straw and David Blunkett, in the early 2000s) .........


"The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.

He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".

As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.

Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons."



But MrGG, don't get bogged-down with immigration. People come to the UK, because it's great here, GET OVER IT!

[teamsaint]

some interesting stuff here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/09/eu-immigration-uk_n_3893889.html

Non EU nationals in employment in the UK rose approx 90k pA over the last 10 years.

also some suggestion that, in terms of wealth creation, that net immigration is good news.
Of course its only one part of the story. If this country actually got round to building houses as the necessity that it is, life might be rather better all round.
Well except for those in the south east whose house prices might suffer a little bit.