Poor value pensions....

[teamsaint]

Any evidence behind that 'calculation?'

Whereas ....

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/reso...-inequality-uk

inequality stats are easy to find. But that really does set it out very nicely.
additionally of course, corporate greed is part of the picture.

Here's one demonstration on how it is hurting us ALL .

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2013/02/27/corporate-tax-receipts-are-falling-but-were-not-getting-growth-as-a-result-so-why-keep-cutting-corporate-tax-rates/

[amateur51]

Well, I am not as narrow-minded as you, clearly. I like to look at the population of the world. Are you suggesting that a tribesman in Mali is not worthy of wealth redistribution?

Still waiting for that 'evidence, Mr Shape-Shifter.

[amateur51]

inequality stats are easy to find. But that really does set it out very nicely.
additionally of course, corporate greed is part of the picture.

Here's one demonstration on how it is hurting us ALL .
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...ate-tax-rates/

Good link, many thanks teams.

[scottycelt]

For an alternative view:

http://www.coppolacomment.blogspot.c...n-not-yet.html

Yes, it was pretty clear from the opening advert that selling a magazine subscription was the main point of the exercise and that was confirmed right at the end when we were invited to subscribe to the mag/rag and learn where to put our 'investments' for safety! Also the pound has been rising quite nicely lately.

I agree that it's a bit rich (no pun intended) that those on the Right who were so enthusiastic about financial deregulation now preach about the somewhat inevitable consequences in 2008. They are beginning to sound like some on the Left with their dire warnings of Armageddon. Nobody is suggesting we have to clear all our debts overnight, simply that we have to bring them back into line with most other countries. I can't see why that should be beyond any government prepared to tackle it properly. The UK's debt rating is still among the best in the world and that is no accident.

Still, there is genuine concern here. Contrary to the impression given by the article we are far from being alone. US debt is also colossal and if things again go wrong there the whole world will be in deep trouble just like in 2008.

However competent the UK is in managing its debt in the future that itself may not be enough to save it from another world recession, even depression. That is the simple reality, I'm afraid.

Of course, it may never happen. Fingers crossed.

[Resurrection Man]

First please answer my question...why do you consider that a tribesman in Mali is not worthy of wealth distribution since in your response you merely chose to be selective and only bother to consider the UK?

[Resurrection Man]

Still waiting for that 'evidence, Mr Shape-Shifter.

First please answer my question...why do you consider that a tribesman in Mali is not worthy of wealth distribution since in your response you merely chose to be selective and only bother to consider the UK?

[amateur51]

First please answer my question...why do you consider that a tribesman in Mali is not worthy of wealth distribution since in your response you merely chose to be selective and only bother to consider the UK?

Because we're talking about pensions in UK, at least I was, and I see the subject of your question as both a diversion and a wind-up.

[Resurrection Man]

Alright I will let you off the hook on that one for now.

So let's do a little arithmetic using the 'bleeding heart' chart that you linked to. Leaving aside the fact that it is impossible to validate ANY of the figures or charts in this chart..they glibly quote a reference source but that is pretty pointless without seeing how they 'massaged' the data....leaving aside all that 'bleeding heart' stuff, take a look at the typical CEO remuneration for a FTSE 100 company...£4.3 million. So let's look at how this wealth-distribution is going to work. There are 100 companies in the FTSE 100 so that is an average total of £430 million. Now let's assume that you are going to drag them down to the average level..there are about 30 million employed people in the UK. Do the math. £430 divided by 30 is £14. So that now increases the average wage of you and me by £14 ..but chances are we won't be paying that much tax on it and so the Govt loses out on income tax. Oh dear.....so how are you going to pay for pensions now?

There are too many of us, living too long, draining the NHS Service and there is not enough money either in the public purse or in private pensions to provide for an adequate pension as that demographic timebomb tick ever onwards. Senicide, anyone ?

[amateur51]

Senicide, anyone ?

It's time for a futile gesture - after you!

[amateur51]

Alright I will let you off the hook on that one for now.

So let's do a little arithmetic using the 'bleeding heart' chart that you linked to. Leaving aside the fact that it is impossible to validate ANY of the figures or charts in this chart..they glibly quote a reference source but that is pretty pointless without seeing how they 'massaged' the data....leaving aside all that 'bleeding heart' stuff, take a look at the typical CEO remuneration for a FTSE 100 company...£4.3 million. So let's look at how this wealth-distribution is going to work. There are 100 companies in the FTSE 100 so that is an average total of £430 million. Now let's assume that you are going to drag them down to the average level..there are about 30 million employed people in the UK. Do the math. £430 divided by 30 is £14. So that now increases the average wage of you and me by £14 ..but chances are we won't be paying that much tax on it and so the Govt loses out on income tax. Oh dear.....so how are you going to pay for pensions now?

There are too many of us, living too long, draining the NHS Service and there is not enough money either in the public purse or in private pensions to provide for an adequate pension as that demographic timebomb tick ever onwards. Senicide, anyone ?

I'll be generous and trust your maths ...

Your initial suggestion was that we'd all get 6.5p; but now your calculation shows in fact it's £14 which is rather more than you suggested.

The 'bleeding heart' chart to which you scornfully allude (scorn being your default position in debate) was created by some people who have paid considerable attention to the impact of inequalities such as this on types of societies that they create. And you'll hate this, but they show, time and again, that those societies where inequalities are most marked are those with the worst health records, most self-harming behaviours (obesity, alcohol and drug addiction), violent crime, acquisitive crime, white collar crime etc etc.

[teamsaint]

Ams is of course proveably (is that a word?)right about the societies which work best.

RM, I take issue with your assertion that we are draining the NHS of cash. What we are doing, in fact, is PAYING for the NHS, pouring cash into it.

On to the point about more of us living longer. Well this is true, although on the stats the government is busy telling us on the one hand that we are all going to live to 100, but on the other hand we will all die of obesity.
That aside , we really do need to look at patterns of work, leisure, education, retirement and so on.
Sadly the place the recent governments have taken us to is one where our young people frequently acquire huge indebtedness and two degrees by age 23/24, and finish their masters degeree just in time to find that the only work available is a job which pays peanuts, and which is in any case needed by a less well educated person who has no other options.
At the same time, 60 somethings are being frightened or forced into working on and on and on, keeping many good quality jobs quite unnecessarily out of the reach of younger colleagues, of job market entrants.

Bloody government caused madness.

PS Actually, the best functioning societies are certainly those with a healthy roots music scene. Sunglassescoolsmileything.

[Resurrection Man]

I'll be generous and trust your maths ...

Your initial suggestion was that we'd all get 6.5p; but now your calculation shows in fact it's £14 which is rather more than you suggested.

The 'bleeding heart' chart to which you scornfully allude (scorn being your default position in debate) was created by some people who have paid considerable attention to the impact of inequalities such as this on types of societies that they create. And you'll hate this, but they show, time and again, that those societies where inequalities are most marked are those with the worst health records, most self-harming behaviours (obesity, alcohol and drug addiction), violent crime, acquisitive crime, white collar crime etc etc.

I'll not even bother to debate this. Sweeping generalisations are your forte.

£14 6.5p ...what does it matter ? The point is that all this talk of 'unfair pay' etc inequality etc actually is not borne out by the maths. So the CEO's get a good package. So what..maybe they worked hard.

[Resurrection Man]

Ams is of course proveably (is that a word?)right about the societies which work best.

RM, I take issue with your assertion that we are draining the NHS of cash. What we are doing, in fact, is PAYING for the NHS, pouring cash into it.

On to the point about more of us living longer. Well this is true, although on the stats the government is busy telling us on the one hand that we are all going to live to 100, but on the other hand we will all die of obesity.
That aside , we really do need to look at patterns of work, leisure, education, retirement and so on.
Sadly the place the recent governments have taken us to is one where our young people frequently acquire huge indebtedness and two degrees by age 23/24, and finish their masters degeree just in time to find that the only work available is a job which pays peanuts, and which is in any case needed by a less well educated person who has no other options.
At the same time, 60 somethings are being frightened or forced into working on and on and on, keeping many good quality jobs quite unnecessarily out of the reach of younger colleagues, of job market entrants.

Bloody government caused madness.

PS Actually, the best functioning societies are certainly those with a healthy roots music scene. Sunglassescoolsmileything.

ts...where is the money going to come from? Improving the tax take from corporates is an obvious starting point but it is not going to be enough. We have too many people in this country and allowed (thanks to Labours deliberate policy) unfettered immigration. The country was full to start with.

[Richard Barrett]

So the CEO's get a good package. So what..maybe they worked hard.

I work hard too, and so do most people. I don't see what this is supposed to prove.

[teamsaint]

RM.
About this "too many people " thing....we have more people working than ever before, paying the taxes etc.

We can pay for the things we need, if there is a will.

Stopping wars abroad would help the kitty. So would making corporations pay their way. Abolish the ludicrous NIC ceiling.

All this " work hard" nonsense. Well, i DO believe in letting people keep a good share of what they earn. But that is NOT a reason to let income divides increase unfettered, That is a recipe for social and economic disaster. And it isn't the politics of envy, its the politics of good sense.

like the Lib Dems. Er, well , perhaps not, actually.... winkyeyething

Edit : since you mention party politics, don't forget that public spending under tory governments is no different to labour. The deficit is untouched. immigration (FWIW) is all but the same.