HS2....who/what should we believe?....

[MrGongGong]

There is a further wrinkle to booking UK trains. I've found if you use the train operator's own booking system you can get better deals than those listed on the national system.

Like wot I said about electricity
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Why on earth do we have to have this nonsense that wastes our lives ?
I travel all the time for work and have to spend what amounts to hours working out which ticket to buy etc etc
time better spent digging the garden, writing music or even speaking with REAL people.........

NO ONE is suggesting the obvious ?
Have ONE way of buying tickets and ONE set of prices, make it illegal to sell at a discount ...... all the saved time and effort we can use for doing a bar by bar analysis of the complete piano works of Sorabji (if AH hasn't done it already ;-) )

[ahinton]

Like wot I said about electricity
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Why on earth do we have to have this nonsense that wastes our lives ?
I travel all the time for work and have to spend what amounts to hours working out which ticket to buy etc etc
time better spent digging the garden, writing music or even speaking with REAL people.........

NO ONE is suggesting the obvious ?
Have ONE way of buying tickets and ONE set of prices, make it illegal to sell at a discount ...... all the saved time and effort we can use for doing a bar by bar analysis of the complete piano works of Sorabji (if AH hasn't done it already ;-) )

AH most certainly hasn't done that - and nor's anyone else!

The complexities and absurdities of the current frare structure must surely come at a cost of the own so, like the tax system and for broadly similar reasons, it would, I agree, be in everyone's interests for it to be greatly simplified.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

But how can that be? It's a state-run system!

That'll be why it's more expensive than ours.

[teamsaint]

If anybody really thinks that our train system is well run , efficient, or fit for purpose, they really ought to pay for a train out of Waterloo anytime between about 3 Pm and 10 PM, and try to get a seat.

it is , or ought to be , a national disgrace.

[jean]

That'll be why it's more expensive than ours.

But it isn't.

And even if it were, the difference would be accounted for by the huge subsidies our private train operators suck out of the Treasury.

[jean]

NO ONE is suggesting the obvious ?
Have ONE way of buying tickets and ONE set of prices, make it illegal to sell at a discount ....

I think that's implied in the suggestion (by those of us who've suggested it) that we'd be better off with a national state-run system.

[ahinton]

I think that's implied in the suggestion (by those of us who've suggested it) that we'd be better off with a national state-run system.

Why so? It shouldn't be beyond the wit of any organisation that owns and runs a train network to do this, whoever it may be; the only issue with having the network owned by several companies is the risk that the simplification of ticket pricing might to some extent be compromised by competition between them over shared or part-shared routes, but even that would not apply if one company owned and ran the whole shebang.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

But it isn't.

And even if it were, the difference would be accounted for by the huge subsidies our private train operators suck out of the Treasury.

Demonstrate it. If you want to make a case for re-nationalisation, we're all still waiting. But I doubt the fact that the German system offers a great refund service will win many votes . . .

We await your detailed submission.

And actually, Mr GongGong's idea of single tariff pricing at all times from all ticket vendors might make the system more equitable - but it also might make very low price tickets disappear altogether. Still, it should be worth exploring in some detail.

[jean]

So you'd like the railway to be run by a single company, but not state-controlled?

[jean]

If you want to make a case for re-nationalisation, we're all still waiting...We await your detailed submission...

It's there in the report I linked to earlier.

But what's all this we all? I am not the only poster here to favour a state-run system, I think you'll find.

[MrGongGong]

And actually, Mr GongGong's idea of single tariff pricing at all times from all ticket vendors might make the system more equitable - but it also might make very low price tickets disappear altogether. Still, it should be worth exploring in some detail.

I'm not sure if I care that much about the price
if its too much then I wont go
but what I do resent is having to waste my time dicking about trying to simply buy a ticket !

There's no point complaining either as politically they all believe the same old nonsense and out comes the good old USSR to prove how much better it is to be shafted by a private company rather than the state...........

[ahinton]

So you'd like the railway to be run by a single company, but not state-controlled?

If you're asking me that question, that's not what I said; in fact, I'm not sure how best it should be owned and run because, as I already indicated, I have grave doubts as to whether anyone could do it effectively and profitably (by the latter of which I don't mean fat cat profitably but sufficiently so to enable adequate investment in improvements, modernisation, &c.)...

[Dave2002]

I'm not sure if I care that much about the price

but you do, as you write

if its too much then I wont go ...

Then you go on

There's no point complaining either as politically they all believe the same old nonsense and out comes the good old USSR to prove how much better it is to be shafted by a private company rather than the state...........

I am prepared to believe that the "good old USSR" was totally incompetent about shafting people, except when it really wanted to do so, when I fear it may have been rather too efficient.

Fortunately things have moved on since the bad old days, though I suspect we may still have better railway services.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

If you're asking me that question, that's now what I said; in fact, I'm not sure how best it should be owned and run beause, as I already indicated, I have grave doubts as to whether anyone could do it effectively and profitably (by the latter of which I don't mean fat cat profitably but sufficiently so to enable adequate investment in improvements, modernisation, &c.)...

Is that another way of saying it's virtually impossible to run a railway without subsidies and at the same time keep ticket prices affordable? Because if it is, I agree with you. Or put another way, rail transport is not cost effective compared to other transport systems. However, that's not the same as saying we should do away with them. London (and other large cities) cannot operate without railways.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

It's there in the report I linked to earlier.

No it's not, because your report does not attempt any case comparison between privatised and nationalised; only a critique of the present system. It makes hand-waving statements about public support for re-nationalisation, but there's no economic study. And whatever demonstration there is of a lost engineering competence (just as there might be for the CEGB) we are where we are now. You'd be attempting to go back to a situation where we once had engineering competence in depth, and now we have very little.