Gay interest: Discussion v campaigning

[amateur51]

No, scotty; it's up to the Russian government to decide, just as it's up to anyone inside or outside Russia to propest about any such legislative changes that may occur if so they choose; now whether you would consider active protest (boycotts and the like) to constitute an example of "the West" dictating to (even if only by the back door) or lecturing the Russian government as to what it may or may not do is up to you, but I doubt that even you would suggest that no one anywhere say or do anything to criticise or protest...

I wonder if scotty realises that if Mr Putin continues with this strategy, all that will happen is that those Russian lesbians and gay men who are able to will seek refuge in more lesbian- and gay-friendly places like France and heaven forefend UK (with or without Scotland!)

Keep up the good work scotty!

[amateur51]

I don't think it's been missed - it's just that not everyone believes that the family entitled to protection can consist only of a man and a woman and their natural children.

That would rule out 'families' with adopted children , 'families' with step-parents, 'families' where death or divorce has removed one parent or the parent was never much in evidence in the first place, as well as 'families' where the parents are gay.

How do you define 'family', scotty?

Our own Section 28 dreamed up the category of pretended family as I recall. Is that helpful?

Nicely done, jean - I suspect that there are several correspondents on this Board for whom the term 'pretended family' will provide a warm & cosy glow of recognition where lesbians and gay men are concerned.

[ahinton]

I wonder if scotty realises that if Mr Putin continues with this strategy, all that will happen is that those Russian lesbians and gay men who are able to will seek refuge in more lesbian- and gay-friendly places like France and heaven forefend UK (with or without Scotland!)

Keep up the good work scotty!

I rather doubt that this is all that will happen in such circumstances, but happen it most surely will. I would not wish to press a comparison with the displaced of Syria too hard in case that might risk taking matters off topic, but the LGBT portion of the Russian population will certainly be - and feel and be made to feel - victimsed as second-sclass citizens in their own country if all this does indeed proceed, so they will likewise be "displaced citizens" with reduced rights within their homeland.

Maybe scotty will need to learn some Russian...

[MrGongGong]

Nicely done, jean - I suspect that there are several correspondents on this Board for whom the term 'pretended family' will provide a warm & cosy glow of recognition where lesbians and gay men are concerned.

Is a pretend family like a pretend Christian I wonder ?
you know, one who believes that it's OK to kill people ?

[scottycelt]

I do hope that, by 'you' you don't mean 'me', as none of these are necessarily my views.

Relax, Pab.

I think Mr Barrett's mind is way back in 1930's Nazi Germany and he may have confused 'you' for 'me' regarding the Russian issue.

He wants to talk about the persecution of gays, Jews, gypsies, the mentally impaired (he missed out the millions of Christians, of course) at the hands of that horrid National Socialist regime.

I just want to talk about 'gay activism' in modern Russia and the understandable desire of the Russian Government to uphold traditional values and the Universal Human Rights Declaration I alluded to earlier.

[Pabmusic]

Relax, Pab...

I think I'll make a cup of tea.

[ahinton]

I think Mr Barrett's mind is way back in 1930's Nazi Germany and he may have confused 'you' for 'me' regarding the Russian issue.

He wants to talk about the persecution of gays, Jews, gypsies, the mentally impaired (he missed out the millions of Christians, of course) at the hands of that horrid National Socialist regime.

I'm sure that Mr Barrett would not dispute the inclusion of Christians in the list of those persecuted in Nazi Germany in the 1930s (although I am unaware thsat the régime concerned actually set out to persecute all Christians in Germany or even as many of them as possible), but it is surely obvious that his mind is not only on that era and nation but on the present issue under discussion, othewise he would have had no need to raise the former in the context in the latter for the purpose of drawing a valid comparison as he has indeed done.

I just want to talk about 'gay activism' in modern Russia and the understandable desire of the Russian Government to uphold traditional values and the Universal Human Rights Declaration I alluded to earlier.

In other words, you don't want to talk (or presumably hear or read) about similar actions by past governments against particular categories of people however relevant the one may be to the other. Not content with mere dismissal of historical precedent as though it didn't exist, however, you write about "the understandable desire of the Russian Government to uphold traditional values and the Universal Human Rights Declaration"; what "traditional values", established by whom, with whose consent and when? - and, perhaps even more importantly, how would the Russian government "uphold" that declaration by wilfully reducing or removing the human rights of all of its LGBT citizens? That sounds to me to be a case of turning logic on its head.

[ahinton]

I think I'll make a cup of tea.

Notwithstanding the time of day, I think that a double scotty-scotch might not come amiss, given some of what's being posted here...

[Richard Barrett]

I do hope that, by 'you' you don't mean 'me', as none of these are necessarily my views.

Sorry, I keep giving rise to misunderstandings like that. I guess I should be naming names more often. I meant scottycelt of course.

[Beef Oven!]

Notwithstanding the time of day, I think that a double scotty-scotch might not come amiss, given some of what's being posted here...

Be patient, the evening will soon come, a more appropriate time of the day for alcohol.

[ahinton]

Be patient, the evening will soon come, a more appropriate time of the day for alcohol.

You seem to be developing some kind of obsession with patience, the reason (if any) for which is less than immediately apparent...

[Serial_Apologist]

Is there any truth in allegations I heard on TV this morning that as part of their homophobic legislative programme Putin's government intend removing children from the care of gay couples?

[ahinton]

Is there any truth in allegations I heard on TV this morning that as part of their homophobic legislative programme Putin's government intend removing children from the care of gay couples?

I do not know if this deplorable prospect is likely to become fact but I fear that it would not especially surprise me if so but, never mind; it would, after all, be a fundamental factor in Russia upholding its longstanding and noble "traditions" and showing its due respect for and compliance with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, wouldn't it?...